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Too Many Singers and What to do with Them.

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DanG2006
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Location: USA

Post by DanG2006 »

Okay lets say we are at the last spot in the rotation before the first singer in the rotation, who is you by the way and five new singers add their songs into the midst. they should go to the bottom of the rotation, right? well the actual bottom of the rotation is before you. is t fair they have to wait through the rest of the rotation before getting to sing? Almost forgot to mention that it is a two hour wait and you only have an hour and a half left in the show.


mnementh
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Post by mnementh »

Blind Gregory wrote:I opine that, once a rotation has started, it should be closed; not only to new singers but to anybody who turns in a request after the next rotation. Even me, believe it or not.

If not, t least any and all requests that are made after the rotation starts should ne put at the end of the rotation.

My objection is to having new requests stuck in ahead of me in the rotations.

Still, it would be nice if my opinion was considered by more KJs. I really hate checking with a KJ to find out how long before my turn to sing will come so I know whether I can go out and have a cigarette, then finding out when I come back in that a handful of new singers have "bumped me back" in the rotation by fifteen minutes to a half an hour.
I've got to say that with a two hour rotation that if you're not using a PC for Karaoke hosting, then the practical logistics must be a nightmare.

Fine, if you have a photographic memory and can accurately remember the order that singers handed their song slips in but I'm only built like an Elephant :oops: , I don't have the memory of one.

As I said earlier, my hoster of choice automatically sorts out the rotation, although I CAN move people up and down the list and people who hand in multiple songs will be sorted accordingly.

Your cigarette "break" also isn't an issue as my hoster puts up the next few singers onscreen, between songs, so you could easily be informed how long you are likely to wait.

I'd also like to welcome you to the madhouse.

Sandy
Blind Gregory
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Post by Blind Gregory »

Or if you number the slips as they come in?

Actually, closing the rotation that's started already might keep the rotations smaller, which I think would be a good thing.

Just a thought.

And thanks for the welsome. 8)
DanG2006
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Location: USA

Post by DanG2006 »

Bar owners would frown on chasing customers away because of closing the rotation down. The only reason to close a rotation is if you are close to closing time.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

OK, I now understand what you are saying.

I get 10 singers that give me slips. You say that should be the first rotation. Then any slips I get after the original 10 should be the second rotation. What happens if five of the first 10 singers don't get to give me another slip in time. Do they go into the third rotation and get skipped?

As Dan suggested, the rotation has a beginning and an end. KJs, (most KJs) are trying to be fair to everyone. How would you feel if you came up with your slip, after being there an hour and I tell you that you will have to wait another hour for the next rotation to start?

I have when the rotation is getting very large, started inserting singers after the first singer in an every other one fashion, so the rotation could start over so the first singers could sing a little sooner. But that means that I have picked a singer to end the rotation. Now what if you were the singer that was next? You just got bumped even farther back. So now I made the first singer happy at your expense. I can't possibaly make everyone happy all the time.

I try to make the majority happy all the time. I very rarely get complaints about how my rotation is run. I do it the same everytime. That can be counted on. Regardless of how it looks, I am always being fair. Nobody is getting special treatment by singing 2 times in a rotation.

I have done someone a favor if they have to leave because their ride is leaving or they have to get a babysitter home. I do have some that want to keep asking for bump ups because they have to "leave." And they are there watching me tear down. Don't try to pull a fast one on me, I'll remember you and it won't happen again.

The night I had a 3 1/2 hour rotation was an exception. But I tried to be as afir as possible to the majority. Some singers that were there early probably got mad at me. I have no control over the number of total singers in a night. 50 showed up. When and where do I decide you can't sing even one song tonight? I played 5 hours and 15 minutes that night. I get paid to play 4 hours. So who was taken advantage of to make everyone happy to at least get one song? There were 10-15 singers that would have sang twice because I did play that long. If they stayed. Some left 10 minutes before they were to sing again. Stay 3 1/2/ hours to sing again and leave right before that?????

I do get singers that complain about the wait. They are used to being at a crap karaoke show that doesn't attract more than 10 singers, ever. It's not my fault. If you want to sound good, there is a trade off. You can sing 5-6 times a night and sound like crap or 3 times and sound great. You pick.

I'm staying with the insertion method because it makes the majority happy. Take it or leave it, but that's how I run my show. No favoritism. Fair as possible for all. The success of my shows indicates something good is happening. Have people not come back, sure. Have some been mad, sure.

I have to take care of the people that do come week after week. I can't worry about the ones that don't for some imaginary reason. It's not because they didn't sound good. It's not because I take care of my friends or take bribes. It's not because my show sucks.

Come and sound good and know you are being treated fairly regardless of your talent level or your music taste or song you selected. Which would you rather have?
Moonrider
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Post by Moonrider »

Bigdog wrote: I have done someone a favor if they have to leave because their ride is leaving or they have to get a babysitter home.
My "Rule #7":

If you are leaving, and want me to move you up in the rotation for “one last song before I leave,” I'll be happy to do so. Just remember that you'll be scratched from the rotation for the rest of the show – even if you change your mind and decide to stay! This is the only way I know to accommodate this request and still be fair to the other singers.
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

Good rule. may I use it?
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

Moonrider wrote:
Bigdog wrote: I have done someone a favor if they have to leave because their ride is leaving or they have to get a babysitter home.
My "Rule #7":

If you are leaving, and want me to move you up in the rotation for “one last song before I leave,” I'll be happy to do so. Just remember that you'll be scratched from the rotation for the rest of the show – even if you change your mind and decide to stay! This is the only way I know to accommodate this request and still be fair to the other singers.
I don't have this rule written on paper, but I will use it if you want to sing again after you told me you HAD to leave. Don't treat me like an idiot. I run the equipment that makes you sound good. :twisted: I run the rotation. :twisted: I can make you life a living hell.... :twisted: Get it??? Don't screw with the KJ and expect anything good to come from it..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
mnementh
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Post by mnementh »

Moonrider wrote:
Bigdog wrote: I have done someone a favor if they have to leave because their ride is leaving or they have to get a babysitter home.
My "Rule #7":

If you are leaving, and want me to move you up in the rotation for “one last song before I leave,” I'll be happy to do so. Just remember that you'll be scratched from the rotation for the rest of the show – even if you change your mind and decide to stay! This is the only way I know to accommodate this request and still be fair to the other singers.
Me likes that rule as well and at the risk of plagiarism, I think I'll add it to my "Do's and Don'ts" list on my books.

Sandy
Moonrider
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Post by Moonrider »

Anything I post is meant to be shared y'all. If you like it, feel free to cut 'n paste
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Moonrider wrote: My "Rule #7":

If you are leaving, and want me to move you up in the rotation for “one last song before I leave,” I'll be happy to do so. Just remember that you'll be scratched from the rotation for the rest of the show – even if you change your mind and decide to stay! This is the only way I know to accommodate this request and still be fair to the other singers.
My "Rule #1" (unwritten):

I'm not going to move you up in the rotation for ANY reason so don't bother asking. To extend you this courtesy means extending a discourtesy to all the other singers. Why should someone else who will stay to the end of the show lose a turn just because you had to leave?
Blind Gregory
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Post by Blind Gregory »

Bigdog wrote:OK, I now understand what you are saying.

I get 10 singers that give me slips. You say that should be the first rotation. Then any slips I get after the original 10 should be the second rotation. What happens if five of the first 10 singers don't get to give me another slip in time. Do they go into the third rotation and get skipped?

(If everybody is being treated fairly then, yes, they get skipped if the second rotation has started. But the second rotation should, logically, be somewhat shorter. How often do you get five new singers within the 30-45 minutes a 10 singer rotation runs?)

Come and sound good and know you are being treated fairly regardless of your talent level or your music taste or song you selected. Which would you rather have?
Do you want me to answer that honestly? 8)

I want to be the star of the show and sing every second song, of course!

Realistically? Not going to happen and shouldn't...

But "fairly"? Let's be real here. Our motivations are entirely different.

What you consider fair treatment and what I consider fair treatment are never going to be the same. I don't have an income dependant on how the show is run and I'm not trying to make everybody happy.

You KJs do and are.

Hell, at the local venues where I go to sing, the KJs love me because I go out of my way to inspire people to go up and try singing. I know that means I'm "cutting my own throat", so to speak, rotation-wise by doing so; but it also means that more people are having fun and the KJs are becoming more popular.

Believe it or not, while I was expressing a complaint I have, I was more trying to show a point of view that isn't from a KJ viewpoint than I was trying to point a finger at anybody. And I offered a suggestion based in that point of view that, in my opinion, might be more fair to we singers, instead of just complaining.

And I got the disussion going in a new direction. :wink:
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

The "motivations" of the singer and of the KJ are always going to be different. The singer wants to sing as often as possible and the KJ wants to treat everyone as fairly as possible.

For me, it's not about money, it's about being fair. I would run the rotation the same way if I were performing karaoke in my family room.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I don't care if you have sold 20 million albums. Cronic complainers I can live without. If you are going to be a pain in my A&& I would rather see you go to someone elses show forever.

I have several objectives that I have to fulfill based on money and reputation.

Being as fair as possible adds to my business reputation. That gets me jobs.

Being fair also adds to the size of the bar crowd. Adding to to bar's income.

It all equals money. No fairness, no money.

You want to sing more????

Get there early and stay late. It's the only way it will happen.

I had 41 singers last night. 32 is a 2 hour rotation. So they were coming in steady all night. And they all wanted to sing 10 songs. Most KJs don't get 41 people, let alone 41 singers. The first singer sang 3 songs. He was the first one in the bar and just about the last one to leave. Someone else had to drive his car for him. He obviously had fun and never complained once. He did come up several times to look at the rotation. He also saw me add new people in front of him and he also said he understood he wouldn't be singing again for a while. Singers like him I can take all night long. Complainers get the cold shoulder treatment. If you become too big of a pain for me I may ask the bar owner to have you removed. I don't get paid enough to put up with abuse. I don't have to take it. I won't.

I think singers would get more mad because I said they missed an entire rotation than just being bumped back a few singers. Again we are talking about the majority. I wouldn't want to sit there all night and miss an entire rotation while paying for drinks like everyone else.

I have been the new singer at a karaoke show and sat and watched the KJ let every singer sing TWICE before I sang once. Guess who never went back. The KJ is costing the bar owner money. The bar owner is too stupid to see and understand what was going on.

My goal is to build the crowd be adding new singers that want to come back week after week. So they must feel like they are being treated fairly. I don't discriminate between new singers and old ones. All are equal. They all get the same treatment week after week.

I have to be somewhat flexible with how things go. But I am always trying to be as fair as possible to all.

Bar owners that want to hire KJs that play favorites are total idiots that won't make as much money as they could be making. Idiots deserve idiots.
If I own a bar I'm going to hire a KJ like me. In fact last night the bar owner told me he was lucky to have me. I told him I was lucky to have him. He gets it. Most don't.
Blind Gregory
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Post by Blind Gregory »

:shock: Chronic complainers?

I made one complaint and offered a possible solution!

And I do "get there early and stay late" usually. Since I have a problem driving myself, that's not always possible, but I do try.

I also do what I can to "support" my KJs as much as possible.

What I want to know is how you figured out that I used to be a professional singer. I never mentioned that.
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