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The Lone Ranger
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Re: Buying music

Post by The Lone Ranger »

I made a mistake it was the Republican candidate that received over one million votes.

1,138,629 48.87% of the vote.

Upton Sinclair received 879,537 votes or 37.75 %.

The interesting thing about this election was there was also a Progressive Party candidate Raymond L Haight who received 302,519 or 12.99% of the vote.

If the Liberal vote had not been split by two parties Upton Sinclair could have won with 50.74% of the vote. That is why Bernie Sanders said he won't run as a 3rd party candidate, he does not want to split the Democratic vote and give the Republicans a victory. The way Ralph Nader did in Florida During the Bush vs. Gore election.


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wiseguy
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Re: Buying music

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The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) If we don't start making things more even in this country we are going to go the way of France and Russia when they were monarchies. In both cases only a small class of society benefited from the wealth of the country. The vast majority lived in abject poverty, this situation finally boiled over into revolutions in both countries. What the wealthy don't realize is that you can abuse the people for just so long and then when things get really bad watch out. One thing I agree with Sanders is you can't be strong militarily unless you are strong economically at home.

I feel we should be watchful of overseas situations, use diplomacy and if necessary build alliances for world peace. We cannot be the policeman for the entire world. At one time that was the role of Great Britain when they were a world empire. It ended up breaking them financially. The pound was the world currency before the dollar replaced it.

At home we should repair our crumbling roads, bridges,dams, schools, water, sewer, and improve our outdated power grid. We should invest in renewable energy sources for the day we run out of fossil fuels, which we should get off, to stop CO2 admissions, that are killing our planet, we only have one. Also we should make college affordable to all who wish to attend, and provide trade schools like they do in Europe for those who want a skill or valuable trade.

Back in 1934 a Socialist under the banner of the Democrat Party, ran for Governor of California Upton Sinclair, the author of "The Jungle", a book about the horrible working conditions in the meat packing industry in Chicago cira 1906. That was during the height of The Great Depression, he didn't win mainly because all of the powerful special interests were terrified that he might. He did get more than a million votes which put a scare in both the Republicans and the Democrats. There is a story that all the 1%'s during the Depression went to FDR and asked him what is was trying to do? He was giving away the store and after all he was one of them. It was Ford, Rockefeller and other Titans of industry, this was in New York City and they were up in meeting room that overlooked the street. FDR wheeled his chair over to the window, pulled back the curtain and they all saw the people waiting in line for bread and soup. FDR said "I'm trying to keep them from going Communist and taking everything away from you".
You sound like a Bernie Sanders campaign speech :) We badly need a "Socialist Democrat" in the White House and a Democratic majority in at at least the Senate before we can move forward towards wealth equality. I don't know if you watched the GOP debates but it was the same old crap on making the rich richer and trickle down economics BS. Nothing about a minimum wage increase, nothing about the distribution of wealth.
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The Lone Ranger
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Re: Buying music

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wiseguy wrote: You sound like a Bernie Sanders campaign speech :) We badly need a "Socialist Democrat" in the White House and a Democratic majority in at at least the Senate before we can move forward towards wealth equality. I don't know if you watched the GOP debates but it was the same old crap on making the rich richer and trickle down economics BS. Nothing about a minimum wage increase, nothing about the distribution of wealth.
8) In Europe they have many parties not just two, and the run the full spectrum of political thought. There are Labor Parties, Christian Democrats, Social Democrats, Socialists, Communists, Nationalists, you name they have it. I don't know if I sound like Bernie Sanders or not. I have always felt we are much to ready to tell others how to live and get involved in their problems, when our efforts should be directed like Germany and Japan inward, to make our country strong and lead by example not by force. My dad was a simple man who lived through The Great Depression, fought in WWII and lived through the 50's and 60's. He always would tell me "Don't go looking for trouble, when trouble does come be prepared to deal with it. We were attacked in WWII and had to respond. Bush's war in Iraq had two firsts in it. It was the first time we attacked another country in a preemptive manner. It was the first time we fought a war and didn't raise taxes to pay for it, it was placed on the National Credit Card chaching.

When you look at Sanders and Trump the one thing they have in common is they would raise taxes on the wealthy, also they both have hinted they want single payer health care for this country like the rest of major countries around the world have. If you take Bernie's 40% and put it with Trump's 30% , that is 70% of the voters who agree, at least on these two points. Don't be fooled by Mike Huckabee and his tax on consumption, they have it in Europe it's called the VAT, the value added tax. It falls most heavily on poor people that live paycheck to paycheck and spend and consume on a daily basis. It collects nearly nothing from the rich, they can only buy so much, if you personally know any wealthy people, they did not become rich by spending. After all they can only wear so much, they can only eat so much, and they can only consume so much.

I find it ironic that the wealthy in this country want to do away with the safeguards established in this country since the New Deal and FDR. On the surface it is shear madness on their part. Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, Federally Insuring Pension Plans, and other programs keep hope alive for millions of our most needy citizens. Since the rich enjoy so much of the fruits of their labors it would seem proper that they would want to pay their fair shares, and insure these programs stay fully funded, for all generations. There was method in FDR's madness as a rich Patrician he knew the lesson of Ancient Rome, you have to have bread and circuses to keep the mob under control, force alone won't do it. In a way I guess we should let the rich sweep everything aside and destroy the middle class, it is the only thing standing between them and the mob, and total anarchy. Wouldn't it be something if by their own greed they destroy themselves. Trump got a little taste of that last night when he opened the floor up to questions, and he found out just how crazy some of his supporters sounded. The people that for years have been whipped to a frenzy by Fox News, and Rush Limbaugh. I noticed when he was done at that meeting he didn't stick around, he got his security around him and got out of Dodge fast.
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Re: Buying music

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We've had a socialist/communist president and congress for the last seven years....how's the crappy economy? 49% of the population is on food stamps.... China has our middle class. There is NOTHING in the far foreseeable future that is going to end corporate greed and turn this economy around. I had to stop eating out over a two years ago. Can't afford it. My one bar that used to be pretty busy has seen a drop of 10-15% since January. Higher minimum wage will kill the restaurant business. Hamburger is $6.99 a pound.

I know people in the drilling thing...they are laying off and taking pay cuts... Gas prices keep dropping and the lower they get the higher the unemployment in the gas and oil industry.... Meaning the economy is going to keep getting worse...

It took 13 years and world war 2 to end the Great Depression of 1929. We have nothing that is going to increase the need for good manufacturing jobs in this country.... We've become a service oriented country.... Repairmen, burger flippers and doctors isn't nearly enough to change the economy. We can't export burger flippers... We import 92% of the products we need.....most of it is Chinese crap.

Incase anyone hasn't noticed...WE'RE DOOMED... :cry: Get out of debt as fast as you can and pray a lot.
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Re: Buying music

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Bigdog wrote:We've had a socialist/communist president and congress for the last seven years....how's the crappy economy? 49% of the population is on food stamps.... China has our middle class. There is NOTHING in the far foreseeable future that is going to end corporate greed and turn this economy around. I had to stop eating out over a two years ago. Can't afford it. My one bar that used to be pretty busy has seen a drop of 10-15% since January. Higher minimum wage will kill the restaurant business. Hamburger is $6.99 a pound.

I know people in the drilling thing...they are laying off and taking pay cuts... Gas prices keep dropping and the lower they get the higher the unemployment in the gas and oil industry.... Meaning the economy is going to keep getting worse...

It took 13 years and world war 2 to end the Great Depression of 1929. We have nothing that is going to increase the need for good manufacturing jobs in this country.... We've become a service oriented country.... Repairmen, burger flippers and doctors isn't nearly enough to change the economy. We can't export burger flippers... We import 92% of the products we need.....most of it is Chinese crap.

Incase anyone hasn't noticed...WE'RE DOOMED... :cry: Get out of debt as fast as you can and pray a lot.
You are absolutely and totally CLUELESS to what is really happening. So much so that I actually laughed out loud reading this gibberish. You have obviously bought into every outrageous right wing lie out there. If you decide to get out of the karaoke business I'm sure there is a spot for you on Fox news.

I would set you straight but you are just too far gone to accept reality.
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The Lone Ranger
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Re: Buying music

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Bigdog wrote:We've had a socialist/communist president and congress for the last seven years....how's the crappy economy? 49% of the population is on food stamps.... China has our middle class. There is NOTHING in the far foreseeable future that is going to end corporate greed and turn this economy around. I had to stop eating out over a two years ago. Can't afford it. My one bar that used to be pretty busy has seen a drop of 10-15% since January. Higher minimum wage will kill the restaurant business. Hamburger is $6.99 a pound.

I know people in the drilling thing...they are laying off and taking pay cuts... Gas prices keep dropping and the lower they get the higher the unemployment in the gas and oil industry.... Meaning the economy is going to keep getting worse...

It took 13 years and world war 2 to end the Great Depression of 1929. We have nothing that is going to increase the need for good manufacturing jobs in this country.... We've become a service oriented country.... Repairmen, burger flippers and doctors isn't nearly enough to change the economy. We can't export burger flippers... We import 92% of the products we need.....most of it is Chinese crap.

Incase anyone hasn't noticed...WE'RE DOOMED... :cry: Get out of debt as fast as you can and pray a lot.
8) Obama is not a Communist or even a socialist, he is a Moderate Democrat square in the middle. If more people are on Food Stamps it is because the average worker has fallen so far behind in wages adjusted for inflation, that they qualify for the Food Stamps program. The only thing that is going to end corporate greed and turn this economy around is the people getting out and voting. In the last election participation had dropped to an all time low. Some of that can be credited with GOP legislatures trying to take away some minorities voting rights.

One thing we can do to try and stimulate the economy is to figure how to get the money that is sitting on the sidelines outside the U.S. back into this country to be invested. Some reports put this money large multinational corporations have sitting in off shore banks, at around 2 trillion dollars. The companies won't bring it back here because they don't want to pay taxes on it. It would seem to me that the Federal Government should tell these companies they can bring the money back in tax free, if they use the funds to buy Federal Bonds. Special tax free bonds to be used to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. The corporations loan this money for 25 years and when the time is up they get their money back and no tax will be paid on it. Everyone wins and the country gets badly needed repairs done, hire workers and stimulate the economy.
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Re: Buying music

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The Lone Ranger wrote: 8) Obama is not a Communist or even a socialist, he is a Moderate Democrat square in the middle. If more people are on Food Stamps it is because the average worker has fallen so far behind in wages adjusted for inflation, that they qualify for the Food Stamps program. The only thing that is going to end corporate greed and turn this economy around is the people getting out and voting. In the last election participation had dropped to an all time low. Some of that can be credited with GOP legislatures trying to take away some minorities voting rights.

One thing we can do to try and stimulate the economy is to figure how to get the money that is sitting on the sidelines outside the U.S. back into this country to be invested. Some reports put this money large multinational corporations have sitting in off shore banks, at around 2 trillion dollars. The companies won't bring it back here because they don't want to pay taxes on it. It would seem to me that the Federal Government should tell these companies they can bring the money back in tax free, if they use the funds to buy Federal Bonds. Special tax free bonds to be used to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. The corporations loan this money for 25 years and when the time is up they get their money back and no tax will be paid on it. Everyone wins and the country gets badly needed repairs done, hire workers and stimulate the economy.
You are absolutely correct. But it must be addressed that one of the biggest factors holding back progress are people like Bigdog who fall for the lies and fear tactics from the right. They are time and again duped into voting against their own best interest. Just making a statement like "49% of the population of the population is on food stamps" (the actual number 14.6%) shows a total disconnect from reality. The really scary thing is that people like this make up the majority of the republican base.
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The Lone Ranger
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Re: Buying music

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wiseguy wrote: You are absolutely correct. But it must be addressed that one of the biggest factors holding back progress are people like Bigdog who fall for the lies and fear tactics from the right. They are time and again duped into voting against their own best interest. Just making a statement like "49% of the population of the population is on food stamps" (the actual number 14.6%) shows a total disconnect from reality. The really scary thing is that people like this make up the majority of the republican base.
8) Well wiseguy some people think FDR was a Communist, he wasn't, he was a one percent person who realized things had to change or our form of government would have collapsed, and anarchy would have prevailed. He actually saved capitalism. People that don't understand what's going on have never bothered to study the History of this country. Obama inherited a mess and he had to spend political capital to save capitalism once again. It's funny that the very people who want the government to have hands off as far as business, and allow big business to manage themselves, are the first one's to come running to Congress for a bailout, if those business's destroy themselves.

If the government had taken no hand in the auto bailout, we would not have an American auto industry today, and all the jobs in this country that are supported by that industry. There has to be a balance between big government and big business or our Democracy would cease to exist. Even the tea party advocates who don't like big government still love Social Security, Medicare, and of course Bush's Prescription Drug program, I guess he is a Communist or Socialist also? Especially since he created this new big government program, and once again didn't raise taxes to pay for it, something else future generations will have to pay for.

So all of these GOP base voters, and the large corporations that fund their activities are just full of it and are playing a very dangerous game. If they succeed and destroy big government and keep all of their money this country will cease to exist. They are sowing the seeds of their own demise. My Dad use to tell me" if a person wants to kill themselves let them". Not in this case because they would take the rest of us with them.




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wiseguy
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Re: Buying music

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The Lone Ranger wrote:One thing we can do to try and stimulate the economy is to figure how to get the money that is sitting on the sidelines outside the U.S. back into this country to be invested. Some reports put this money large multinational corporations have sitting in off shore banks, at around 2 trillion dollars. The companies won't bring it back here because they don't want to pay taxes on it. It would seem to me that the Federal Government should tell these companies they can bring the money back in tax free, if they use the funds to buy Federal Bonds. Special tax free bonds to be used to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. The corporations loan this money for 25 years and when the time is up they get their money back and no tax will be paid on it. Everyone wins and the country gets badly needed repairs done, hire workers and stimulate the economy.
The biggest first step we can make is to overturn Citizens United and get big money out of politics. Then we can start to close tax loopholes to stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. Increase the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour over the next few years. Tell corporate America if they want to sell their products here thay have to make them here. Expand Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. Guarantee healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. Make it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. Break up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Just for starters :)
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Re: Buying music

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wiseguy wrote: The biggest first step we can make is to overturn Citizens United and get big money out of politics. Then we can start to close tax loopholes to stop corporations from shifting their profits and jobs overseas to avoid paying U.S. income taxes. Increase the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour over the next few years. Tell corporate America if they want to sell their products here thay have to make them here. Expand Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income above $250,000. Guarantee healthcare as a right of citizenship by enacting a Medicare for all single-payer healthcare system. Make it easier for workers to join unions by fighting for the Employee Free Choice Act. Break up huge financial institutions so that they are no longer too big to fail. Just for starters :)
8) I don't disagree with anything you have written down here wiseguy. The problem is that to get the money of politics would now take an amendment to the Constitution , since the conservative Supreme Court has ruled basically giving money to elected officials is free speech. Rather than what it really is buying favor, a bribe. Also to force business's to conform to rules about how they run their operations, would end the concept of laissez-faire capitalism.

Capitalism works best with new emerging economies and not so well for older more established ones. We really need to rethink this relationship between big business and big government since one complements the other. What has hurt this country most of all is the concept that greed is good, and that we have no responsibility to the generations that follow us, or to our fellow citizens. We are all in the same boat and we need to start compromising and pulling on the oars together.

Whether anyone will admit it or not this country was closer to Socialism during 50's and 60's. During the time of Eisenhower the effective tax rate on the wealthy was 90%. Richard Nixon a Republican suggested a minimum income for citizens, they would get paid by the government whether they worked or not, since full employment wasn't possible even at that time. The average CEO only made in the 50's 35 times more than the factory line worker. Now it is 750 times more, that is if you have a factory line worker to compare with. There was a time when management was made up of people who had a sense of moral obligation, and looked upon their job as a responsibility not only to the shareholders but also the people that worked for them. Sadly with the corporate buyouts and the raiding of company pension plans to enrich a few those days are long gone.
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Re: Buying music

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Corporate greed is killing the country/economy...there is no end to it because they sucked everyone in the country into the corporate greed circle. The 401K ponsi scheme was the beginning. Since they got everyone to fall for it and become "invested" in it....nobody wants to see "their" fund lose money so they have to root for corporations to make money so the stock price goes up. The corporations do that by only caring about the bottom line profits above everything else. Companies used to care about their employees....not anymore...they see everyone as red ink hurting the bottom line profit and so is their vacations, healthcare, retirement and all the rest of their benefits. $15 an hour minimum wage sounds good except...what will that do for the price of goods and services? Talk about inflation... And what do you pay somebody with skills? A burger flipper is not a skilled worker..
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Re: Buying music

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Bigdog wrote:Corporate greed is killing the country/economy...there is no end to it because they sucked everyone in the country into the corporate greed circle. The 401K ponsi scheme was the beginning. Since they got everyone to fall for it and become "invested" in it....nobody wants to see "their" fund lose money so they have to root for corporations to make money so the stock price goes up. The corporations do that by only caring about the bottom line profits above everything else. Companies used to care about their employees....not anymore...they see everyone as red ink hurting the bottom line profit and so is their vacations, healthcare, retirement and all the rest of their benefits. $15 an hour minimum wage sounds good except...what will that do for the price of goods and services? Talk about inflation... And what do you pay somebody with skills? A burger flipper is not a skilled worker..
Big corporations never cared about their employees... they were forced to by labor unions and government regulations. The conservatives success in duping their voters into believing the trickle down economics theory farce, and that government regulations and labor unions are bad for businesses, has fueled the growth of corporate greed.

Raising the minimum wage does not cause inflation. Raising the minimum wage will be good for workers and good for the economy overall. You need only look at real world examples like this one.

Costco and Walmart are two of the largest retailers in the United States, but they have far different philosophies regarding employee compensation. Costco’s starting wage for employees is $11.50 an hour, and their average wage is nearly $21 an hour. Walmart, meanwhile, announced earlier this year that it would raise its starting wage to $9 an hour—and its average wage is $12 an hour, far lower than Costco’s.

Given the large discrepancy in employee compensation, one might expect Costco to have much lower profitability... but this isn’t the case. If you invested the same amount in both Costco and Walmart in 2005, your investment in Costco would be worth 4.5 times more right now. You can also add to this the fact that Costco prices are lower than Walmart's on average.

In Australia the minimum wage at McDonalds is $16 an hour and the price of a Big Mac is less than in the US. Take a look at how jobs and the economy are booming in Seattle since they raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

We need unskilled laborers every bit as much as skilled laborers. ANY adult who works full time in this country deserves a livable wage.
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Re: Buying music

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Bigdog wrote:Corporate greed is killing the country/economy...there is no end to it because they sucked everyone in the country into the corporate greed circle. The 401K ponsi scheme was the beginning. Since they got everyone to fall for it and become "invested" in it....nobody wants to see "their" fund lose money so they have to root for corporations to make money so the stock price goes up. The corporations do that by only caring about the bottom line profits above everything else. Companies used to care about their employees....not anymore...they see everyone as red ink hurting the bottom line profit and so is their vacations, healthcare, retirement and all the rest of their benefits. $15 an hour minimum wage sounds good except...what will that do for the price of goods and services? Talk about inflation... And what do you pay somebody with skills? A burger flipper is not a skilled worker..
8) Not everyone was sucked in Bigdog. One thing that George W. Bush wanted to do was privatize Social Security and make it more like a 401 K, and less like a defined pension plan. Can you imagine what would have happened if he would have got his way? With the collapse of the market in 2007-2009 billions would have been lost in the trust funds. Putting Social Security in worse shape than it is today and bringing financial collapse even closer of the system so many depend on. A rising tide lifts all boats and everyone must share in the wealth of a country or eventually that nation will have a political correction, that could be messy for the one percent that rules the 99 percent.
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Re: Buying music

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wiseguy wrote: Big corporations never cared about their employees... they were forced to by labor unions and government regulations. The conservatives success in duping their voters into believing the trickle down economics theory farce, and that government regulations and labor unions are bad for businesses, has fueled the growth of corporate greed.

Raising the minimum wage does not cause inflation. Raising the minimum wage will be good for workers and good for the economy overall. You need only look at real world examples like this one.

Costco and Walmart are two of the largest retailers in the United States, but they have far different philosophies regarding employee compensation. Costco’s starting wage for employees is $11.50 an hour, and their average wage is nearly $21 an hour. Walmart, meanwhile, announced earlier this year that it would raise its starting wage to $9 an hour—and its average wage is $12 an hour, far lower than Costco’s.

Given the large discrepancy in employee compensation, one might expect Costco to have much lower profitability... but this isn’t the case. If you invested the same amount in both Costco and Walmart in 2005, your investment in Costco would be worth 4.5 times more right now. You can also add to this the fact that Costco prices are lower than Walmart's on average.

In Australia the minimum wage at McDonalds is $16 an hour and the price of a Big Mac is less than in the US. Take a look at how jobs and the economy are booming in Seattle since they raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

We need unskilled laborers every bit as much as skilled laborers. ANY adult who works full time in this country deserves a livable wage.

8) Wiseguy they say corporations are people at least in this country they are treated as such. Just like you have good and bad people you have good and bad corporations. Back in the gilded age of the 1890"s there were really bad corporations acting badly. They were monopolies that exploited not only the workers but also everyone, and controlled politics so they could continue their robber baron tricks. Quite by accident the first Roosevelt Teddy became President. He was a progressive that believed government was meant to protect citizens from bad corporations and trusts. He became a Trust Buster. During his time in office many reforms were past and we started leveling out the playing field.

During the 1920's the stock market boomed and corporations were doing fine even with all the government restrictions placed on them. Then the Great Depression, for the first time both the rich and the poor were in the same boat. This put the rich in closer contact to the poor since some of them joined the ranks of the down and out. During this time labor unions really saw growth, and of course government programs were needed to keep the country from falling into revolution and anarchy. To a certain extent the lessons taken away from the Great Depression and WWII that followed were etched into the fiber of every citizen that lived through those times.

That is why we had the G.I. Bill which allowed WWII vets to achieve a college education and add new skills and wealth to this country, by citizens that would have not been able to go to school. This was really the great generation since they laid the basis for this country's wealth by investments in a national highway system and a real concern for future generations. The effective tax rate on the wealthy was 90% and the standard of living was higher then when adjusted for inflation than it is now. Unfortunately this generation has passed away and with them the values that they held dear.

They have been replaced by the Baby Boom generation which still have some of these core values, but they are not as tough as the generation that proceeded them. The people that grew up in the Depression didn't have much so they took the wealth they created and dumped on the next, in a way spoiling them. They became soft and afraid of losing what has been gained over the years. They are so afraid that they blame everyone else for what is wrong with this country. The fault lies in ourselves not in others if things aren't to our liking, it is because as a society we don't even bother to vote. We say our vote doesn't matter so why bother? A priest once told me that "The devil comes to you when you are very tired, and says I just doesn't matter".

You are right wiseguy all labor matters and it should be honored by the making of a living wage by all. If we continue down this path of 1 vs 99 it will only lead to the destruction of our nation, which was established on a contract between the government and the people. Like any other contract it is only effective if both sides feel it's a good deal. Once it is not then like all other contracts it can be terminated.
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Re: Buying music

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[quote="The Lone Ranger"

Sorry for the double post :redface: :redface: :redface:
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