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New KJ, I have some questions

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The Lone Ranger
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Sorry the above article is talking about Section One article nine of the Constitution. My bad.

here's the article site: thinkprogress.org

What Section One Article Nine says at the bottom.

"Rejecting the monarchy of England the Constitution also specifically prohibits Congress from granting title or nobility to any person and prohibits public officials from accepting a title of nobility, office, or gift from any foreign country or monarch without Congressional approval".

This is meant to keep our officials from being unduly influenced by foreign powers and other interests which could be contrary to the best interests of the United States. This also would mean large multinational corporations which have as much power or more than some countries. Unless Trump divests himself of his business interests, his business could take front seat to his sacred duties as President and leader of the Free World. Such a conflict of interest could cause a Constitutional crisis, and would be grounds for The Donald's Impeachment. Trump has over 500 business's here and abroad, some of them defunct in at least 18 to 22 different countries, including Turkey and Russia itself. To say that he can do both the office of President and run his business empire without conflict of interest is just so much nonsense. He would be selling the whole country a membership to Trump U. :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:


The Lone Ranger
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Hillary I believe is making a tactical mistake about joining in on the recount process. Now Trump is saying that her support of the recount process is plain hypocrisy. The Democrats condemned Trump for threatening to not respect the election results. Now they are the ones who don't want to accept the election results. Many experts agree that the recounts will not change the results, and that it is a waste of time and money. I think that it is still up to the electors to decide who the next President should be. The Emoluments clause of the Constitution if anything should cause the electors to not vote for Trump on the 19th of December. If Trump should get away with having the Constitution not apply to him, then we really are in for rough situation. We are a nation that believes in the Rule Of Law, if we abandon the supreme law of the land the Constitution this will lead to destruction of our Republic and the start of Anarchy, where we have no rules or contracts binding anyone. No one can be above the law, even The Donald.
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wiseguy
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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I've been reading where some are saying that it's too late to change the results regardless of what the recount concludes. How could that be? Where has our democracy gone? I read an article about a prominent mathematician who contends that it was not numerically possible for Trump to win Florida because of the early voting numbers. With all the shadiness going on with this election tell me why it isn't being seriously investigated? Why isn't Obama getting to the bottom of this instead of being virtually silent? It's feeling more and more like a right wing coup.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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on
wiseguy wrote:I've been reading where some are saying that it's too late to change the results regardless of what the recount concludes. How could that be? Where has our democracy gone? I read an article about a prominent mathematician who contends that it was not numerically possible for Trump to win Florida because of the early voting numbers. With all the shadiness going on with this election tell me why it isn't being seriously investigated? Why isn't Obama getting to the bottom of this instead of being virtually silent? It's feeling more and more like a right wing coup.

8) Right now not enough money has been raised to recount Florida, only Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. If it were a matter of just a few thousand votes maybe some outcomes would change. When you are talking about tens of thousands of votes that is another matter wiseguy. Obama does not want to appear to by a hypocrite himself, when it comes to accepting the election results. I think the President realizes that Hillary blew her opportunity by taking things for granted. She felt that the blue wall would hold. It would have held if this had been a normal election cycle. The simple fact is voter turn out, Obama's coalition didn't show up in big enough numbers, and Trumps supporters voted. Now Trump is saying that the only reason Hillary's popular vote is higher, is voter fraud. You know this was going to happen once this recount business started. Hillary might get herself back in his sights, if she pushes this matter too far. She should have kept a low profile and let Jill Stein take the heat, just my opinion of course. Of course if Jill was so concerned about the possibility of Trumps winning she should have dropped out of the race. She pulled a real Ralph Nader by stealing away enough votes, that could have pushed Hillary to a win. I still feel that the electors might vote against Trump if he doesn't divest himself of his business empire. If he refuses to do this then we might be on track for a Constitutional Crisis. :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Trump lost by over 2 million votes, there are shady things going on with Russia and the FBI, the numbers don't add up in several areas including the state of Florida. Americans were already losing faith in our election system and this could destroy what little they have left. Hell, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth voting anymore. There needs to be a full and wide scale investigation of this election by our government. Private citizens shouldn't have to fund recounts. Democracy has become a sham.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:Trump lost by over 2 million votes, there are shady things going on with Russia and the FBI, the numbers don't add up in several areas including the state of Florida. Americans were already losing faith in our election system and this could destroy what little they have left. Hell, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth voting anymore. There needs to be a full and wide scale investigation of this election by our government. Private citizens shouldn't have to fund recounts. Democracy has become a sham.

8) The reason they are losing faith in the election system is this electoral college. There might have been a reason for it way back when, but today we need to join the other democracies of the world and elect our President by the direct vote of the people. We have seen twice in the last 16 years where the winner of the popular vote was denied the Presidency. Trump was right that it is a rigged system because a few battle ground states hold the voters hostage in California and New York. We have always said the majority rules except when it comes to the highest office in the land. You can see where people in other countries become confused and dismayed, just like when we continued to have institutional slavery long after other countries abandoned it. We are supposed to set and example and live by our principles, it is hard today to say exactly what those principles are? Don't stop voting it is the only real weapon the people have against institutional politics as usual. If we stop voting you are admitting the system is broken, and the only remedy if the vote fails is taking up arms. We should always strive for ballots over bullets. I find it incredible that Trump is now saying the system is rigged and that the two million that voted for Hillary over his total were illegal. He is questioning the very election he won? If the Democrats rigged the election they did a very bad job, he won. You won Donald get over it, and show us what you can do. No more whinnying show us how to be a man and a President.

After everything that has been said, I still think the rulers will continue to push the masses until the masses reach a critical mass and then the nuclear solution of revolution becomes the only option. It is the nature of the greedy to want more and take more, at the expense of those who really are the ones that have built the prosperity. You have to ask yourself if you are very wealthy how many houses can you live in, how many cars can you drive, how much can you eat or wear? Especially if your fellow countrymen are going hungry, and living in cardboard boxes. It is a sin for anyone to go hungry in this land of plenty. A great society is determined not by how well you treat the wealthy, but by how well you care for those less fortunate, because there but for the grace of God go I.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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There is NO reason for a recount, she isn't even close to the nearest candidate. So who put up the money and why?


In other news weep for more lost jobs because of idiots that think minimum wage should be $15

McDonalds CEO, Carl's Jr and others are installing order kiosks to eliminate workers and states that just voted to increase the minimum wage report businesses are moving to other states. Taking the jobs with them. Another Obama failure for his long list...
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wiseguy
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Bigdog wrote:There is NO reason for a recount, she isn't even close to the nearest candidate. So who put up the money and why?


In other news weep for more lost jobs because of idiots that think minimum wage should be $15

McDonalds CEO, Carl's Jr and others are installing order kiosks to eliminate workers and states that just voted to increase the minimum wage report businesses are moving to other states. Taking the jobs with them. Another Obama failure for his long list...
The recount is because of some large discrepancies found in certain state counties. Jill Stein collected the fees from donations.

McDonald's was moving to the kiosks anyway. Now they just have a scapegoat to blame it on instead of the corporate greed that it is.

Hilary now has 2.3 millions more votes than Trump. How does it feel knowing your president wasn't elected by the people?
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Gentlemen we all have to face the fact that we are not in Kansas anymore. All of the old things we were taught to believe in are being changed some for the good some for the worse, and it all depends on how we adapt and evolve. This is a time when we are being subjected to a huge dose of economic Darwinism. Capitalism is based on the idea that some business's will thrive and some will fail, a corporation is not a person, even though the Supreme Court says it is. People are people, what happens when they fail? As long as the failure is on a small scale we say the problem is the person. They have addiction problems, mental problems, criminal problems etc. etc. etc. When, however, the failure is on a large scale, we have to conclude the problem is structural in nature. By structural I mean a problem that is so large that it has to be addressed or it will bring everything down, that we call the status quo.

In the past when vast structural changes were needed hundreds of years could lapse to make adjustments. Today that time is not available, since technology and communications are advancing faster than we or governments can cope with . That is why there is more unrest in the world today and there will be more in the future, unless we all accept the fact that change is needed. The trouble is most elites don't want things to change since this would upset their status quo, they love so much. So that is why we have a select few in the world trying desperately to manage forces that are beyond their control to manage. Without a total rethinking of how systems work and how everyone relates to each other we as humans for the most part are doomed.

I don't know maybe things have gone too far with the overpopulation of the planet, and only a mass extinction will solve the problem. It is mighty rough for those who are getting thinned out, and what kind of a world will be left for the few who manage to survive. I still feel that there is a humane way to deal with our global problems, but a country has to show the way. Why can't that country be ours? We are supposed to be problem solvers, and I think we can be again, if the special interests will let freedom ring. If they continue to try and go down the road of self interest and greed, soon they will find that the masses will have turned against them. There is still time to get things right but it is running out fast.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Hot off the presses Trump is going to have a press conference on December 15th and is going to tell how he will divest himself of his business interests to focus on being the President. There is only one problem his children will be present at the event as well. The only way he can really divest himself is to sell everything and have his money placed in a blind trust. If his children still run his empire and have access to secured information due to their family ties, undue influence could still be exerted on the government. I notice he is making this statement 4 days before the electors meet on the 19th of December. He does not want that electors to have an excuse to become faithless. I don't believe Trumps show will impress too many since there will still be a connection between his office and his family. This is beginning to look more and more like some third world government, no draining the swamp here for sure. We now have a situation where about 1/5th of the total world GNP is in offshore banks. This is where the super elite hide their assets in order to avoid paying taxes owed on their profits. I'm sure The Donald has his share of loot deposited out there some where.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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He's not fooling anyone. He's just putting his businesses in his children's names and running them like usual. He's not draining the swamp, he's pouring in additional slime. If the electors don't do the right thing and deny him the presidency then our election system is a sham. The EC will have failed to do the very job it was put in place for. Right now I'm looking a Obama in a whole new light. I see him as a coward who won't stand up and fight for democracy. His legacy is being shit on and he does nothing. The Democratic party is the party of pussies.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:He's not fooling anyone. He's just putting his businesses in his children's names and running them like usual. He's not draining the swamp, he's pouring in additional slime. If the electors don't do the right thing and deny him the presidency then our election system is a sham. The EC will have failed to do the very job it was put in place for. Right now I'm looking a Obama in a whole new light. I see him as a coward who won't stand up and fight for democracy. His legacy is being shit on and he does nothing. The Democratic party is the party of pussies.

8) Don't be too hard on Obama wiseguy, he has had a lousy hand dealt to him from the start, and he has had to play it no matter what. First he had to cleanup the mess Bush left behind, two wars at the same time and an economy that couldn't support either one, without going deeper in the hole. He is now a lame duck President and can do very little to change things at this point. When he should have done something is when the Democratic Super delegates were committed to Hillary over 500 of them before the first primary, giving her an unfair advantage over Sanders. Donald is positioning himself to have ex-military run his defense and security forces. He has hired so many former generals that his government is starting to resemble a South American Junta system. If he ever was for single payer health, he seems to have yielded to Paul Ryan's idea of a voucher system for Medicare by his selection for Secretary of Health & Human Services Tom Price. If the EC fails in it's duty to elect the right person for President, the only thing we can do is wait for the Republicans to over play their hand. One thing for sure if populism fails and Trump goes down as the worst President ever, then how far can the revolution be away? After all our Republic at this time teeters on top of the Washington Monument just waiting to fall off and crash to pieces. One thing for sure California is big enough if Medicare is done away with, they just might go the single payer route by themselves.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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It's not just now. It's been this way for a long time. Liberals refuse to stand up for themselves. What do you think would be happening right now if things were reversed? What if Clinton won the EC but lost by over 2 million votes and that there were solid evidence that Russia was involved in getting her elected? Trump would refuse to accept the results. The GOP would be going crazy with numerous investigations and recounts. They would fight it til the end. They wouldn't take it lying down like today's weak ass liberals. Is Hilary afraid of what Trump might do to her? If she is she was never worthy to begin with.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:It's not just now. It's been this way for a long time. Liberals refuse to stand up for themselves. What do you think would be happening right now if things were reversed? What if Clinton won the EC but lost by over 2 million votes and that there were solid evidence that Russia was involved in getting her elected? Trump would refuse to accept the results. The GOP would be going crazy with numerous investigations and recounts. They would fight it til the end. They wouldn't take it lying down like today's weak ass liberals. Is Hilary afraid of what Trump might do to her? If she is she was never worthy to begin with.

8) The Democrats are in a very weak position right now both houses are controlled by the Republicans, the office of President is held by an ally Trump, it still remains to be seen if he is a real conservative or not, and with the selection of the next justice the Supreme Court will also be conservative as well. I don't think leaders like Sanders and Warren will cave in, but they are weakened as well, and limited in the amount of opposition they can project. Where the Democrats need to make a comeback is in state houses and Governors races. In 2020 a new census will be taken and redistricting will happen, the state legislatures will draw the new maps. If they are still controlled by Republicans you can imagine what kind of gerrymandered districts will evolve. I personally think that the drawing of districts should be left to an independent commission and taken out of the hand of state legislators who have a vested interest in the outcomes. For the Democrats to make a comeback it will only take the Republicans over playing their hand and trying to get rid of Social Security and Medicare, then all hell will break loose. If it doesn't then we are all doomed to being controlled by the elites from now until the day of our death. Much like the clergy and the nobles controlled society during the Middle Ages, it's good to be the elite, it is tough to be the serf.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Well bigdog your President Trump made a big deal out of saving 1,000 jobs at the Carrier plant in Indiana. Of course 1,000 jobs are still going to Mexico, those are jobs that aren't coming back. Originally Pence as Governor of Indiana gave Carrier a 1.7 million tax cut to keep the factory in the state. The trouble is the move to Mexico saved Carrier 65 million, so naturally Carrier gave the Governor back his 1.7 million and said no thanks. Trump raised the tax breaks to 7 million, paid for by the Indiana taxpayers, you know people like you bigdog. Why did Carrier go for it this time you might ask yourself? Carrier is owned by UTX a parent company, and UTX has defense contracts with the government of over 5 billion annually. Not doubt this was the leverage The Donald used to get the compromise.


This whole business of tax incentives to encourage business's to stay is the wrong approach to keep jobs in a given community. The job retention is ultimately paid for by the taxpayers, people like you bigdog, instead of giving your hard earned money to deadbeat citizens you are giving welfare to corporations, lucky you, lucky all of us. One study found that states spent on average $456,000 per job, on incentives. At that rate it would be cheaper just to give the displaced workers a living wage and forget the incentives. Of course then we would be paying people not to work, but that was an idea first floated by Richard Nixon, believe it or not a Republican. What he called subsistence payments, since full employment even way back then was impossible. Tax incentive that offset the cost of labor also give companies a stronger incentive to substitute automation and other types of technology for Labor, as long as they're not committed to a minimum number of jobs, that way employers can benefit from tax breaks while still lowering labor costs by replacing people with machines.

What we need is a system not paid by the taxpayer's, instead of rewarding companies for maintaining jobs in this country we should make them pay for the maintenance of displaced worker's and the cost of their retraining. After all it is the company that calculates how much money they will save when making the decision to relocate, if you raise the price for that decision and place the cost where it belongs, not on the taxpayer but on the company itself, I feel you would see a change in their collective attitudes. When making a decision to relocate if the cost of paying displaced workers money until they are retrained and can find new employment is paid for by the employer, it just might cause companies to reconsider the cost reward ratio of keeping their current operation. I think the corporations have a morale responsibility to the communities they leave behind. :usa: :usa: :usa:
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