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Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Discuss any legal issues pertaining to karaoke.
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Sing Karaoke
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Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by Sing Karaoke »

We have a YouTube channel through which we publish karaoke videos. We’ve been focussing on it more seriously for the last 18 months or so and it’s started to gain some good traction. We are now looking at other ways we can monetise our karaoke video content via web, mobile (app) and audio distribution channels. However, we require assistance with the various licenses that go hand-in-hand with distributing (and monetising) karaoke videos outside of YouTube.

We have the ability to create our own apps and web channels, and we have potential distribution partners for audio platforms like iTunes, Spotify, etc. We now just require the licenses to legitimise the monetisation of the videos and audio on these channels.

We're not a karaoke/music company per se, the YouTube channel was an accidental success, but we now have to take it more seriously and want to grow the brand on other platforms.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Paradigm Karaoke
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by Paradigm Karaoke »

the licenses are the tough part.
first you need the mechanical license for the music from the publisher
then you need a lyric reprint license from the lyric owner(s) of those rights
then you need a sync license from both the music owners (publishers) and from the lyric owner(s)
then the fixing license from them as well to put it out to the public.
expensive to say the least, this is the reason, not piracy, that U.S. publishers have gone by the wayside. it is too expensive to make them and be profitable.
get a good copyright/trademark attorney and see everything necessary before you get started and be careful. putting out unlicensed karaoke videos on youtube is not only very illegal, but also causes legal issues for any host that uses them.
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Sing Karaoke
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by Sing Karaoke »

Thanks for your response.

I can't believe it's so difficult to legitimately setup a karaoke service! I want to pay them their dues, but these are a lot of hoops to jump through.

There's no single body that could do all of this for us so that we can focus on building the service/product/brand and they can take care of the licensing issues?
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The Lone Ranger
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by The Lone Ranger »

Currently there is no single agency that covers the commercial use of copyrighted music related material, like there is in England or other countries, where the laws have been brought up to current times. Our copyright laws are hopelessly outdated. There is some hope that Congress might fix this Byzantine system of ours, but until they do it is very hard to jump through all the hoops necessary to use this material, for any profit situations. That is why even simple karaoke hosting has become a gamble whether the host might be sued in civil court, either by the original holders of the copyrighted material, or intellectual trolls trying to line their own pockets. It is a very sad state of affairs, I'm just glad I'm retired from hosting for the most part.
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wiseguy
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by wiseguy »

What you will learn about the licensing you need in a forum will be just enough to get you into trouble. Go hire an intellectual property rights lawyer and find out what you're actually getting into.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by The Lone Ranger »

The only problem is wiseguy that even the lawyers, and even the various Federal district courts can't agree about the legal swamp our copyright laws have become. That is why when you go to court it is such a roll of the dice. For the most part when any of these suits brought by the Karaoke disc manufacturer's have gone to trial, the results have been a mixed bag. For the most part the manus have been able under the best of circumstances to recover the fair retail value of the stolen material. That is why they try to settle out of court with the defendant before they have the trial. It is more cost effective for the manus to have the defendant cave and pay. That is what they really want to have a payment made with no trial.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by wiseguy »

But this guy is talking about setting up a karaoke service, not becoming an end user. This is possible if you know the legalities. Karaoke Cloud does it, as does TriceraSoft.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by DanG2006 »

What I hate is the fact that any hack can access the karaoke videos on youtube and screw the ones doing it who have bought their library.
Youtube states that commercial use is prohibited but they still use it anyway. SIglos now has a feature to access Youtube for songs.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by The Lone Ranger »

[quote="wiseguy"]But this guy is talking about setting up a karaoke service, not becoming an end user. This is possible if you know the legalities. Karaoke Cloud does it, as does TriceraSoft.[/quote]


8) I have a question wiseguy that maybe you or some other member of the forum can answer for me. Where does "Box Karaoke" belong, is it a karaoke service, or is it an end user situation? It would seem that several new suits have been filed in New York by Phoenix LLC., the new legal unit that has taken over the old SC label. Phoenix it would seem has shifted it's focus away from lone KJ's and has moved to venues with large insurance coverage, going after the truly deep pockets. This Box Karaoke approach from what I understand is private rooms hired by groups of people, they boast 100,000 songs and 100 new ones each month. From what I understand they have been around for awhile, but have been flying under the licensing radar. :?: :?: :?:
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by wiseguy »

Karaoke room rentals have been around about as long as karaoke has. I had my first experience with this back in 1993 at the original Karaoke Warehouse store in Columbus OH. They had rooms set up with automated karaoke disc players where people would push buttons to play songs. Being that each room had the original discs would eliminate any legal issues.

Modern karaoke room rentals utilize a main computer that stores all the songs in digital format and the rooms have sort of a kiosk system. I would imagine this is where they run into legal issues.

How anyone can claim to have 100,000 songs, unless they are including every duplicate, is beyond me. There are not nearly that many unique karaoke song titles in existence. And we all know that there are certainly not close to being 100 new songs being released each month.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by The Lone Ranger »

[quote="wiseguy"]Karaoke room rentals have been around about as long as karaoke has. I had my first experience with this back in 1993 at the original Karaoke Warehouse store in Columbus OH. They had rooms set up with automated karaoke disc players where people would push buttons to play songs. Being that each room had the original discs would eliminate any legal issues.

Modern karaoke room rentals utilize a main computer that stores all the songs in digital format and the rooms have sort of a kiosk system. I would imagine this is where they run into legal issues.

How anyone can claim to have 100,000 songs, unless they are including every duplicate, is beyond me. There are not nearly that many unique karaoke song titles in existence. And we all know that there are certainly not close to being 100 new songs being released each month.[/quote]

8) The reason I haven't really seen these private rooms is some problems with legal and zoning laws. It would seem that these rooms being private, were being used at least in California for illegal activities, of which I can find no details, so your guess is as good as mine, what these actions were. The rooms cannot be enclosed private and must have windows installed so activity can be observed? As far as unique songs in English are concerned from what I remember there somewhere between 45,000 to 46,000. Since these private rooms are rented by Asian clients I would imagine there are several various Asian language karaoke songs. For example of have seen ads for hard drive players with 10,000 Vietnamese karaoke tracks pre-loaded. Of course the English Karaoke Songs number is a few years old and there might be more now. I also doubt if 100 new songs are coming on line each month.

P.S. By the way wiseguy are these room rentals a service or an end user? They seem to be a little of both.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by wiseguy »

I did some pretty extensive research a few years ago into the actual number of unique (same song in the style of same artist) English karaoke song titles available. I came up with a figure of about 39,000. But this number is a little misleading being that there are many instances of the same song released in the style of various artists that are virtually identical. I have no idea how many Asian songs have been released but I doubt that number comes anywhere near 60,000.

I consider the room rentals as being no different than a karaoke host performing in each room separately. 1:1 compliance should still need to be maintained. Just like a multi-rig karaoke entertainment company.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by The Lone Ranger »

So you are saying even though they are a service as far as regulation is concerned they should fall under the same rules as an end user? The above mentioned Phoenix legal actions in NY is the first time these rental rooms have been sued as far as I know. It would seem that this whole rental situation while it has gone on for years, has escaped the close licensing scrutiny of other end users such as KJ's. It would seem that SC aka Phoenix, has shifted it's focus away from the lone KJ, and is going after bigger fish. As far as the 45,000 to 46,000 English karaoke tracks are concerned, it is a number I saw on another forum. Just like the estimated number of KJ's in the US is somewhere between 45,000 to 50,000, these figures come from the suing manus.
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by wiseguy »

Karaoke rooms are a service in the same way that a KJ is a service. They provide karaoke entertainment for an hourly fee using the same karaoke music that KJs use. A KJ can be legal using a service like the Karaoke Cloud and so could the karaoke rooms if they pay Karaoke Cloud their set fees which would have to be worked out.
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Paradigm Karaoke
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Re: Licensing - YouTube karaoke channel looking to expand on more platforms

Post by Paradigm Karaoke »

considering they are asian karaoke spots, i would guess those large numbers are also a TON of foreign language karaoke.
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