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Chartbuster is now suing KJ's and Venues

Discuss any legal issues pertaining to karaoke.
djBe
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Location: wilmington, north carolina

Post by djBe » Sun May 20, 2012 7:57 pm

My hard drive doesn't have any soundchoice or chartbuster on it yet, but it sure will eventually. i bring the actual SC and CB discs to my shows.

Just finished loading the SGBs and a few other brands, lack of time is my enemy. I bring all my discs to every show for backup reasons in any case. For all I know the investigators who are supposed to be all over my state right now have already been to my shows.

With so many blatant scummy pirates out there who have NO discs and no leg to stand on, there's better pickins than little ol' fully legal me. If they want to sue me, I'll bring my discs to court and let justice prevail. I'm not worried. But if I was working off an illegal hard drive I sure would be worried. Infact, I'd exit the business pronto. };=D


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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog » Mon May 21, 2012 3:38 am

djBe wrote:My hard drive doesn't have any soundchoice or chartbuster on it yet, but it sure will eventually. i bring the actual SC and CB discs to my shows.

Just finished loading the SGBs and a few other brands, lack of time is my enemy. I bring all my discs to every show for backup reasons in any case. For all I know the investigators who are supposed to be all over my state right now have already been to my shows.

With so many blatant scummy pirates out there who have NO discs and no leg to stand on, there's better pickins than little ol' fully legal me. If they want to sue me, I'll bring my discs to court and let justice prevail. I'm not worried. But if I was working off an illegal hard drive I sure would be worried. Infact, I'd exit the business pronto. };=D
You seemed to have missed a MAJOR aspect of the lawsuits..

They are suing because you transfered the songs to a hard drive even though you own the discs..they are calling that transfer ILLEGAL.. so don't be all smiles about dragging your discs around unnecessarily ..that is only part of the issue..

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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy » Mon May 21, 2012 5:36 am

Bigdog wrote:
djBe wrote:My hard drive doesn't have any soundchoice or chartbuster on it yet, but it sure will eventually. i bring the actual SC and CB discs to my shows.

Just finished loading the SGBs and a few other brands, lack of time is my enemy. I bring all my discs to every show for backup reasons in any case. For all I know the investigators who are supposed to be all over my state right now have already been to my shows.

With so many blatant scummy pirates out there who have NO discs and no leg to stand on, there's better pickins than little ol' fully legal me. If they want to sue me, I'll bring my discs to court and let justice prevail. I'm not worried. But if I was working off an illegal hard drive I sure would be worried. Infact, I'd exit the business pronto. };=D
You seemed to have missed a MAJOR aspect of the lawsuits..

They are suing because you transfered the songs to a hard drive even though you own the discs..they are calling that transfer ILLEGAL.. so don't be all smiles about dragging your discs around unnecessarily ..that is only part of the issue..
Actually, that's not the case either. The suits are not about format shifting specifically. They have not won any judgement for that alone as far as I know of. The suits are about displaying the SC logo from a format shifted song track without their permission.

DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 » Mon May 21, 2012 11:37 am

wiseguy wrote:
Bigdog wrote:
djBe wrote:My hard drive doesn't have any soundchoice or chartbuster on it yet, but it sure will eventually. i bring the actual SC and CB discs to my shows.

Just finished loading the SGBs and a few other brands, lack of time is my enemy. I bring all my discs to every show for backup reasons in any case. For all I know the investigators who are supposed to be all over my state right now have already been to my shows.

With so many blatant scummy pirates out there who have NO discs and no leg to stand on, there's better pickins than little ol' fully legal me. If they want to sue me, I'll bring my discs to court and let justice prevail. I'm not worried. But if I was working off an illegal hard drive I sure would be worried. Infact, I'd exit the business pronto. };=D
You seemed to have missed a MAJOR aspect of the lawsuits..

They are suing because you transfered the songs to a hard drive even though you own the discs..they are calling that transfer ILLEGAL.. so don't be all smiles about dragging your discs around unnecessarily ..that is only part of the issue..
Actually, that's not the case either. The suits are not about format shifting specifically. They have not won any judgement for that alone as far as I know of. The suits are about displaying the SC logo from a format shifted song track without their permission.
Which can easily be obtained by going through a voluntary audit which is different from an audit after being named in a lawsuit. There is no admission of guilt in the voluntary audit. They probably would ask for another audit within a year to make sure you're adhering to the 1:1 policy. They also are looking at more than just their brand in the involuntary audit.

djBe
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Post by djBe » Mon May 21, 2012 12:10 pm

@bigdog- I read the entire brief of the 12/5 lawsuits filed in homestate of North Carolina, I don't think I missed anything. SoundChoice's strategy seems to be to go after multiple-system operators (45 defendants, onlu four operators) which seems like a sound choice to me as these big guns would be most likely to pony up judgment damages as opposed to some kid with one $50 show and a bootlegged drive. And I don't "drag my discs around unneccessarily," I still use them and would bring them to every show as backup in any case because I can't afford to lose a night's pay in the event of a system crash.

@wiseguy and bigdog ~ I may or may not submit to an auditing process, i have mixed feelings about big brother-type stuff like that. I do support the studios' right to sue pirates, but suits should be the result of genuine legwork by legal investigators not some whittling down process by who did and who didn't get audited. When their PI's get to my town (if they haven't already) they can look at my discs; not planning any special trips to Charlotte or Nashville anytime soon.

But like a certain president of a large country recently said, "my feelings on the subject are evolving!" };=D
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog » Mon May 21, 2012 11:45 pm

Wiseguy is correct...their main bytch now is the copyright violation issue. And every KJ using their songs on a hard drive be it 1-1 copy or 25 is in according to them copyright violation for using their logo without permission.

It's a technicality that I believe is not correct either.

Copyright violation to mean means I have used their songs and pretended I am the originator and original owner of said songs. I am not pretending these songs are my creation. I fully aqknowledge Sound Choice has produced these songs. If I claimed I did them...then I would be in violation of the copyright law.

I am using the songs not trying to steal ownership..

We are all taking our chances with their songs on our hard drive..

I bought my songs once...I'm not buying them again. I am only using the hard drive as a back up to protect my investment. I am not selling hard drives or doing multiple shows...

mnementh
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Post by mnementh » Tue May 22, 2012 7:42 am

As mentioned in my previous post, it's entirely possible to trim the start and finish from an MP3+G file pair and after a cursory search, I found this software;

http://www.cdgfix.com/index.php?Itemid= ... &task=view

This software has quite a few good editing procedures available and the logo's that seem to be causing all the problems could certainly be made to "go away".

I'm pretty sure that this could be set up as a batch process to do many files at once.

Sandy.

DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 » Tue May 22, 2012 10:24 am

Yeah mnementh but that in itself is a crime as well that the producers of said tracks can sue over as well. It isn't hard to tell from the sweeps what brand it is. You could get sued for destroying the track and copyright infringement. It's like trying to take all the emblems off of a Chevy truck and saying it's your own creation.

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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy » Tue May 22, 2012 12:12 pm

To wonder if it is possible to edit the graphics of a commercial CD+G song track is fine. To show that it is possible and even post instructions on how to do it is perfectly acceptable. But to actually perform the act of editing a commercial CD+G song track and use it in a public performance would certainly be infringing on the rights of the creator and rights owner and would very likely get you into big trouble.

The solution is not to remove the logo but rather to remove all SC song tracks from your hard drive. If everyone would just do this the suits against legitimate KJs would end and they would be forced to go after the real pirates.

mnementh
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Post by mnementh » Tue May 22, 2012 1:27 pm

wiseguy wrote:To wonder if it is possible to edit the graphics of a commercial CD+G song track is fine. To show that it is possible and even post instructions on how to do it is perfectly acceptable. But to actually perform the act of editing a commercial CD+G song track and use it in a public performance would certainly be infringing on the rights of the creator and rights owner and would very likely get you into big trouble.

The solution is not to remove the logo but rather to remove all SC song tracks from your hard drive. If everyone would just do this the suits against legitimate KJs would end and they would be forced to go after the real pirates.
Wot he said!!!

Sandy

The Lone Ranger
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Post by The Lone Ranger » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:28 am

[quote="wiseguy"]To wonder if it is possible to edit the graphics of a commercial CD+G song track is fine. To show that it is possible and even post instructions on how to do it is perfectly acceptable. But to actually perform the act of editing a commercial CD+G song track and use it in a public performance would certainly be infringing on the rights of the creator and rights owner and would very likely get you into big trouble.

The solution is not to remove the logo but rather to remove all SC song tracks from your hard drive. If everyone would just do this the suits against legitimate KJs would end and they would be forced to go after the real pirates.[/quote]

8) That is exactly what I have done for the last Five years boycotted the SC product, since they are currently only one of two manus on the planet trying this legal process solution of theirs. I have not been sued so I guess my approach has worked. It also helps working in California. Since a judge out here named Wright, declared SC was an intellectual troll, generating a single suit mass filing. The purpose of which was shakedown lawsuits. In fact SC was successfully counter sued by one of the defendants and had an 18,000.00 award filed against them. It would seem that this business of going to court can be a two edged sword.

http://soundchoicelasvegaslawsuit.com/s...alifornia

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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:41 am

I love that term "shakedown lawsuits". It perfectly describes what they are doing.

The Lone Ranger
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Post by The Lone Ranger » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:59 am

8) It would seem wiseguy that PR the company that was supposed to take over the protection of the CB trademark after the collapse of CB last year, has not learned anything from SC's example. They are continuing the mass filing lawsuit approach even suing non-profits such as the Moose Lodge, back in Tennessee.

http://docets.justia.com/search?query=p ... covery+llc

When you reach the web site you might have to search under:

Worldwide Digital Entertainment, LLC et al v Woodstone Deli and Sports Grill et al.

They are joined by a new player Worldwide Digital Entertainment, LLC. A company which lists one of the managing partners John Stovall, a principal at the now defunct CB. They to are suing on behalf of the CB trademark, and copyright. It is very strange since both companies go to great lengths to hide exactly how they obtained the legal standing to sue on behalf of the old CB label.

Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:46 pm

Think about this...


When a company i.e Sound Choice or Chartbusters or anyone else....buys the rights to use a song for karaoke purposes...they buy that right for "X" amount of copies....

At some point when they exhaust that number...they need to re-buy the rights again for "X " amount of copies.....


So if they do not re-buy the rights to those songs again ....what happens to the legal ownership of the songs they are suing KJs for?

Do they still own them or has the rights been relinquished back to the publishers?

They first would have to prove they still have the legal rights for each song...they sold...if those rights have expired...now what?

They would technically be illegal....and have filed a bogus lawsuit...



Removing the Sound Choice intro screen from their song does nothing but prove your intent to steal their property....Premeditated..theft....conspiracy...


I could claim stupidity for them being on my hard drive...you'll claim premeditated theft by deception.

The Lone Ranger
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Post by The Lone Ranger » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:30 am

8) What is more troubling Bigdog is that both CB and SC seem to have neglected to get proper licensing for parts of the respective libraries in the first place. That they themselves are alleged to have pirated materials and violated the publishers who represent the artists copyright to the underlying materials. That is why even DTE who took over the production of the old CB library has had to shrink that library to cover what is actually currently licensed. It is being produced under the DTE trademark, so no new CB product it now being made. PR is a company setup for one thing the legal process. It is not like SC who at least tries to keep up the illusion they are still a major player in the production end of karaoke product.

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