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Has SC Finally Gone The Way of CB?

Discuss any legal issues pertaining to karaoke.
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DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

The Lone Ranger wrote:8) I just saw the court papers concerning the organization of the new Limited Liability Company called Phoenix, filed in North Carolina, filed back on Dec 22, 2014. Our old buddy Kurt J. Slep is listed as the manager/organizer concerning the articles of organization.

It is clear this whole process is designed to protect assets, just in what manner is unclear. Seems strange the a company owner would set up another company just to transfer assets to themselves. Unless of course the need for such a move would be to hide or protect assets.

Many reasons come to mind why such legal hocus pocus is necessary.

1. The SC name has been so damaged by their legal collection process, they want to improve their image by letting some LLC take the blame for the dirty work. It is a little late for that, CB set up Piracy Recovery LLC, so DTE would not be tarred with the collections black brush.

2 It could be that SC is going into foreclosure or bankruptcy and this is a way to protect assets.

3. Maybe in the court system word has gotten out about SC's questionable legal and collection practices and a new company coming in would fly under the judge's radar.

These are just a few possible reasons for this version of the old corporate shel game.

:wink: :wink: :wink:
The difference between the Phoenix/SC and DTE and piracy recovery is that Neither Piracy Recovery or DTE is owned by the former owner.


DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

The Lone Ranger wrote:It is ok not to use SC in a show to avoid having to pay the $199.00 a month. My dog is not in this fight since I'm retired from hosting and have been for over a year now. I had a thought if SC is able to sell or a assign their rights to and LLC. like CB did, and they are both for the most part defunct companies, will other LLC's crop up doing something similar? There are many out of production companies or orphans as they are called. DK, Music Maestro, Sweet Georgia Brown, Back Stage, etc, etc, etc,. Not to mention Piracy LLC. that sues for the CB label.

A nightmare scenario could develop were you would have to pay each LLC, that controls it's particular label. The net result would be there would be no longer any material available that a host would not have to pay to use if they have shifted their original discs.

You would be working for the LLC's and no longer able to put on a show that would make economic sense to an operator. The host would be in the same position as a sharecropper, or a poor peasant who has to pay at each stop some corrupt official or warlord to get your crops to market. When you finally get to market there would be nothing to sell.

Now I know why I retired, I'm just glad that I made mine and got out, without having to enrich others from my labor. I feel for those hosts that are still in the business. Only large multiriggers will be able to pay these fees. All of the hobbyists and small fry hosts will be squeezed out.

People wonder why the small business man is gone and only the large operations are left, this is one reason.


:nonod: :nonod: :nonod: 8)

P.S. It just came to me that the hosts that licensed the GEM series have only 6,000 SC tracks available to them. The pirate that pays his 199.00 per month and uses his illegal HD with no audit could have the full 16, 500 tracks. True he is paying almost 2400.00 a year for a blank check. The GEM license costs a considerable amount also, either way for those who bought their SC product in good faith and shifted to a HD it is bad news.
1: I highly doubt the pirate is gonna shell out $200 a month to be labeled legal.
2:they would have to get the tracks reripped to meet the 192+ bitrate that SC wants because the majority of tracks on a pirated drive is about 128 or less.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

DanG2006 wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:It is ok not to use SC in a show to avoid having to pay the $199.00 a month. My dog is not in this fight since I'm retired from hosting and have been for over a year now. I had a thought if SC is able to sell or a assign their rights to and LLC. like CB did, and they are both for the most part defunct companies, will other LLC's crop up doing something similar? There are many out of production companies or orphans as they are called. DK, Music Maestro, Sweet Georgia Brown, Back Stage, etc, etc, etc,. Not to mention Piracy LLC. that sues for the CB label.

A nightmare scenario could develop were you would have to pay each LLC, that controls it's particular label. The net result would be there would be no longer any material available that a host would not have to pay to use if they have shifted their original discs.

You would be working for the LLC's and no longer able to put on a show that would make economic sense to an operator. The host would be in the same position as a sharecropper, or a poor peasant who has to pay at each stop some corrupt official or warlord to get your crops to market. When you finally get to market there would be nothing to sell.

Now I know why I retired, I'm just glad that I made mine and got out, without having to enrich others from my labor. I feel for those hosts that are still in the business. Only large multiriggers will be able to pay these fees. All of the hobbyists and small fry hosts will be squeezed out.

People wonder why the small business man is gone and only the large operations are left, this is one reason.


:nonod: :nonod: :nonod: 8)

P.S. It just came to me that the hosts that licensed the GEM series have only 6,000 SC tracks available to them. The pirate that pays his 199.00 per month and uses his illegal HD with no audit could have the full 16, 500 tracks. True he is paying almost 2400.00 a year for a blank check. The GEM license costs a considerable amount also, either way for those who bought their SC product in good faith and shifted to a HD it is bad news.
1: I highly doubt the pirate is gonna shell out $200 a month to be labeled legal.
2:they would have to get the tracks reripped to meet the 192+ bitrate that SC wants because the majority of tracks on a pirated drive is about 128 or less.
No reripping needed. It is very easy and very fast to change the bitrate of mp3 files. Increasing the bitrate would not improve the quality but it would make them indistinguishable from those originally ripped at 192 with any detection method.
DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

wiseguy wrote:
DanG2006 wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:It is ok not to use SC in a show to avoid having to pay the $199.00 a month. My dog is not in this fight since I'm retired from hosting and have been for over a year now. I had a thought if SC is able to sell or a assign their rights to and LLC. like CB did, and they are both for the most part defunct companies, will other LLC's crop up doing something similar? There are many out of production companies or orphans as they are called. DK, Music Maestro, Sweet Georgia Brown, Back Stage, etc, etc, etc,. Not to mention Piracy LLC. that sues for the CB label.

A nightmare scenario could develop were you would have to pay each LLC, that controls it's particular label. The net result would be there would be no longer any material available that a host would not have to pay to use if they have shifted their original discs.

You would be working for the LLC's and no longer able to put on a show that would make economic sense to an operator. The host would be in the same position as a sharecropper, or a poor peasant who has to pay at each stop some corrupt official or warlord to get your crops to market. When you finally get to market there would be nothing to sell.

Now I know why I retired, I'm just glad that I made mine and got out, without having to enrich others from my labor. I feel for those hosts that are still in the business. Only large multiriggers will be able to pay these fees. All of the hobbyists and small fry hosts will be squeezed out.

People wonder why the small business man is gone and only the large operations are left, this is one reason.


:nonod: :nonod: :nonod: 8)

P.S. It just came to me that the hosts that licensed the GEM series have only 6,000 SC tracks available to them. The pirate that pays his 199.00 per month and uses his illegal HD with no audit could have the full 16, 500 tracks. True he is paying almost 2400.00 a year for a blank check. The GEM license costs a considerable amount also, either way for those who bought their SC product in good faith and shifted to a HD it is bad news.
1: I highly doubt the pirate is gonna shell out $200 a month to be labeled legal.
2:they would have to get the tracks reripped to meet the 192+ bitrate that SC wants because the majority of tracks on a pirated drive is about 128 or less.
No reripping needed. It is very easy and very fast to change the bitrate of mp3 files. Increasing the bitrate would not improve the quality but it would make them indistinguishable from those originally ripped at 192 with any detection method.
But the other criteria includes perfect rips. Any graphical errors or audio dropouts and you're in breach of the new program.
I'm gonna be honest with you, I know what I'm talking about. My song files before I got the GEMS had poor rips and I did not have the discs to back myself. I purposely wiped the drive and ripped what I had original discs for before going down to NC in 2010. I was a pirate that went back to the good side when I heard about the lawsuits.
Do I have perfect rips on some of my songs now. No. Even though they were done at a bitrate of 320, because there was something wrong with the disc I have songs that weren't perfect rips. One disc I even had to delete a file because it came up so garbled it was unusable. I plan or replacing it with Karaoke version's version of it. Much cheaper than trying to find the disc on eBay.
The Lone Ranger
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) You were a pirate Danny? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Don't feel bad SC themselves are being sued by publishers for failure to obtain permission to use materials and pay the proper fees. Makes one wonder who has the morale high ground on all of this rampant piracy and intellectual theft. When the enforcers of the true way are morally bankrupt themselves.

You can bet Dan that your friends at SC will not send any inspectors around as long as they get their pound of flesh every month on time. To me SC has just nailed the last piece of their corporate coffin shut. You are right about one thing pirates aren't going to pay. Wake up Danny they don't have to, all they have to do is remove the SC content from their PC, and go on their merry way.

There is enough freeware material floating around here to do ten shows. It would not be hard to replace most of the SC content, especially since SC has made no new content since 2009. All they have done by their actions is reveal their true selves to all hosts. Even the most die hard cheerleaders have to be cheering a little less loudly now.

Good luck getting your 50.00 per hour you demand for your show, that is what some pirates charge for a whole night. Sometimes they just work for tips and drinks. By the way are you still looking for a gig? All the pirates or any host has to do is remove the SC content and starve the beast, until it dies. Once that happens they will be once again able to use their SC content, that is if anyone remembers what SC is! 8)
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

[quote="DanG2006"]
The difference between the Phoenix/SC and DTE and piracy recovery is that Neither Piracy Recovery or DTE is owned by the former owner.[/quote]

8) I guess that makes Kurt even lamer than I originally suspected. The purpose of creating the LLC. is to limit the liability of the owner. If a clear line can still be drawn from SC to Phoenix, it would mean the law suits would follow as well. If the purpose of this corporate shell game is to save what little remains of the old SC company, it really doesn't work that effectively. Kurt J. Slep is still the organizer and CEO of this new LLC. That makes the Phoenix fair game and the bird still gets cooked.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

DanG2006 wrote:
But the other criteria includes perfect rips. Any graphical errors or audio dropouts and you're in breach of the new program. I'm gonna be honest with you, I know what I'm talking about. My song files before I got the GEMS had poor rips and I did not have the discs to back myself. I purposely wiped the drive and ripped what I had original discs for before going down to NC in 2010. I was a pirate that went back to the good side when I heard about the lawsuits.
Do I have perfect rips on some of my songs now. No. Even though they were done at a bitrate of 320, because there was something wrong with the disc I have songs that weren't perfect rips. One disc I even had to delete a file because it came up so garbled it was unusable. I plan or replacing it with Karaoke version's version of it. Much cheaper than trying to find the disc on eBay.
Don't fool yourself... they don't give a damn about the quality of the rips as long as they get their monthly "look the other way" fee. And if they did happen to check someone's library, do you think they are going to play every song, in it's entirety, to check for graphic errors? Why can't you come to the realization that this "quality requirement" is solely something they have to include in order to legally strong arm KJs.
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) right on wiseguy.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

DanG2006 wrote:I'm gonna be honest with you, I know what I'm talking about. My song files before I got the GEMS had poor rips and I did not have the discs to back myself. I purposely wiped the drive and ripped what I had original discs for before going down to NC in 2010. I was a pirate that went back to the good side when I heard about the lawsuits.
This actually explains a lot. From the beginning, myself and others were approaching this thing as legitimate KJs being screwed over by SC while you were approaching it as a pirate who was given an easy way out. By the tone of what you just said you would still be a pirate if SC hadn't initiated the law suits. Now you're quick to jump on the soap box to defend anything that SC does.
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) Most of the cheerleaders, or what I call the reformed sinners, originally they were naughty. They shifted the product without getting SC's blessing. Unless a host is still a DBO (Disc Based Operator) all have sinned according to SC for merely shifting a product they bought in the first place. At least according to the dogma released by the sacred SC oracle.

All of this is of course just baloney no matter which way you slice it. All these rules about the use of the product came into being, when SC could no longer ignore the vast amount of piracy that was going on. It was only when they could no longer make a profit, that they started this legal process. They became no longer producers of a product, but rather a company using the legal process as their sole sales plan. Using the threat of legal action to leverage hosts to do their bidding. That is if they wanted to use the SC product.

These cheerleaders became the sales team, trying to brainwash other hosts into the myth that the SC product was superior to all other brands. That they could not run their business without it. Which of course is just a lie. :wink: :wink: :wink:
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Actually, I think more of them were like Dan. They didn't have the discs corresponding to the songs on a hard drive. These are the true pirates. Those who simply ripped their discs and remained strictly 1:1 compliant I would not consider pirates by any definition. At one time SC told us that it was alright to do this but later reneged.
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) Their product their rules, which can be changed or altered at anytime. Then they wonder why they are so disliked? Really!!!!
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) What I find most amusing about all of this a few years ago I floated the idea of having a simple operator's license that any host could show. It would cost 50.00 a month, 600.00 a year and would allow any host to operate their business without fear of legal action.

When I floated this idea every so called legal host jumped on me, said it was a bad plan. That it would reward the pirates and punish the hosts that tried to operate legally. According to SC unless a host has been operating DBO all this time by shifting the SC product without permission and an audit they were in violation and could be sued as well. Now even SC calls their new program an operator's license. Of course it is more expensive and only covers their material. All the license states is that they will not sue, that does not stop other copyright holders from suing you and your business. EMI has amended their suit to reserve the right to sue both SC and the GEM operators that licensed with SC.

Now SC has decided once again to change their position on 1:1 and go after all hosts that have shifted. There has been some talk that they will resume audits on a short term basis, 60 days and that all hosts that want to be certified should get in touch with them as soon as possible. I would be very cautious about putting myself on any list or letting SC know that I'm even out here if I were still a practicing host. Once you are on their roles I'm sure you would be seeing them soon, and not to set up an audit.

It seems strange to me that my idea was so bad, and when SC floats the same idea to some hosts it's the best thing since sliced bread. Thank goodness only a few SC die hards are still supporting their ever changing rules. I guess when you waltz with the devil you have to finish the dance.
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Post by wiseguy »

Yes, they have brought back the audit system "temporarily" mainly because of all the negative feedback about the HELP system. If you're a KJ that simply must use SC songs then the audit system is the best choice. You should certainly read any "fine print" before submitting to any audit.

The way I look at this thing now is that the audit system is for the legit KJs who have purchased the discs and the HELP system is for pirates with loaded hard drives and no discs. I seriously doubt that they will be successful with either. Sure a few more will submit to an audit but selling the HELP system will be a lot more difficult. If they step up the law suits they're probably going to find that KJ will just stop playing SC songs or only play the discs.
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Post by The Lone Ranger »

8) What I have a problem with is the fact nothing is written in stone. The supposed owner of the material SC can at anytime withdraw and change the rules to suit their present financial situation. Since they have admitted they are the only company seriously pushing this legal solution, that the cost of all of this is born by the hosts that attempted to stay legal in the first place.

The pirates will never pay the $200.00 a month neither will the venues operating illegally, all they will do is boycott the SC label. It is already happening and there is not a thing SC or Jim can do about it. Even though they maintain that this Phoenix LLC, is not a dodge for SC, there still remains the issue of the EMI suit. Jim stated that 75% of the songs listed on the suit have been dropped. Out of 4,000 songs that leaves 1,000, and the plaintiff is asking $150,000 per infraction. That's about $150,000,000.00, I'm sure Kurt has that in his back pocket. I'm sure they will settle for a lesser amount but I don't even think SC could pay one tenth of the original amount asked for.

One of the elements of the agreements SC has had hosts sign, include a clause stating that you will not sue SC at some future date. I think it would be wise to obtain legal counsel before signing anything that will commit you and your business to being constantly under the thumb of a company with such a checkered background.
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