Being a songwriter and musician I am very familiar with copyright laws. I know that as a consumer you are entitled to make 2 backup copies of a copyright work. You are allowed to store your original copies and work off of your reproduced copies. My understanding of the law is that as long as you own the original discs, records, or tapes, you can have them stored at your house or storage space or rented property, and it is perfectly legal to use the copies, and YOU DO NOT have to carry the originals around with you. For example, in my car are copies of many of my CDs that I bought legally, and I have the original CDs tucked away at home. This is perfectly legal.
But, how about a KJ or DJ who makes a profit from the music business? I would suspect that a professional in the music biz would be held to a higher standard of accountability legally. But, I don't know for sure. Can anyone prove via printed or web-published text where it is necessary for a KJ or DJ to be able to cough up the original recordings on the spot if a BMI rep (who is a private enterprise and has nothing to do with the US federal government copyright department) asks for proof? I have come across references to copyright statements on this board and I want to know FOR SURE what the law REALLY is on this subject. My experience in the past is that everone in the music biz thinks they know the copyright law, but when asked they all have different ideas.
Copyright laws??
You just opened a massive can of worms.
As you have stated everyone has their own idea about what they think is legal.
If you talk to KJs they think it fine to copy an original disc to either another disc or a hard drive (I.E. 1-1 copy)
If you talk to disc manufacturers they will tell you it's legal and illegal to copy anything. Some are OK with 1-1 copies from disc to disc. They are not OK with copying to a hard drive because there has never been permission granted (fees paid) by the disc manufacturers to digitally reproduce to a hard drive.
I personally copy everything I own to a hard drive. Legal or not, I have invested nearly $50,000 and I'm not taking any chances with discs getting ruined, as many of them have. I refuse to take my disc collection out of the house so I can prove I own anything. If that day comes i'll take the discs to court.
As you have stated everyone has their own idea about what they think is legal.
If you talk to KJs they think it fine to copy an original disc to either another disc or a hard drive (I.E. 1-1 copy)
If you talk to disc manufacturers they will tell you it's legal and illegal to copy anything. Some are OK with 1-1 copies from disc to disc. They are not OK with copying to a hard drive because there has never been permission granted (fees paid) by the disc manufacturers to digitally reproduce to a hard drive.
I personally copy everything I own to a hard drive. Legal or not, I have invested nearly $50,000 and I'm not taking any chances with discs getting ruined, as many of them have. I refuse to take my disc collection out of the house so I can prove I own anything. If that day comes i'll take the discs to court.
Good luck finding a clear cut answer to that question. It's more elusive than the Bigfoot monster. As with Bigdog, most of us simply have the proof that we legally purchased all our music and can provide this proof if necessary (in court). And if a BMI agent ever shows up at one of my gigs he'd better have a cop with a warrant with him or I'm telling him to get lost.
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alfalfa4381
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- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:06 pm
I know that it is a massive can of worms!! It sure would be nice if there was a simple guide to copyright of music. Did you know that for a band to play cover tunes in a live performance that they may need to pay copyrights, or get written permission from the artists? Also, if a church uses tracks in a service, they cannot include that performance in a recording of the church service without paying copyrights, unless they obtained permission from the artists? I know that some backup tracks publishers give permission on their packaging to use the tracks. But, in music copyrights are owed to the writer of the lyrics as well as the writer of the tune. Interresting subject...
Bigdog, I believe the spirit of the copyright law pertaining to backup copies is to prevent bootleg copies of published material from being sold, therefore rooking the artists out of their rightful profit from the sale of their music. Therefore, I believe that you are in compliance when you copy your songs to the hard drive. You are simply protecting your investment, you are not selling karaoke songs under the table. Now, if you record your shows and sell or even give away the CDs, then you could be accused of hurting the pocket book of some artist.
Does anyone of you know if it is legal to perform karaoke music in a bar or other live venue? I am reading the back of a MTV Karaoke CDG that I have in my hand now. It is G8310, entitled R&B Vol 10. In fine print on the back of the cover, bottom right corner, are the words, "Performance rights must be obtained prior to public performance". I bet if you call the publisher they will want money from a KJ to use this material in a live show. Maybe not, they may give you their blessing free of charge.
Maybe there is a "blanket plan" like is used in the church venue. Churches can pay an annual fee and ASCAP will grant them permission to use the works of any ASCAP member in their services.
A complete, simple guide to copyrights pertaining to music sure would be nice, huh?
Bigdog, I believe the spirit of the copyright law pertaining to backup copies is to prevent bootleg copies of published material from being sold, therefore rooking the artists out of their rightful profit from the sale of their music. Therefore, I believe that you are in compliance when you copy your songs to the hard drive. You are simply protecting your investment, you are not selling karaoke songs under the table. Now, if you record your shows and sell or even give away the CDs, then you could be accused of hurting the pocket book of some artist.
Does anyone of you know if it is legal to perform karaoke music in a bar or other live venue? I am reading the back of a MTV Karaoke CDG that I have in my hand now. It is G8310, entitled R&B Vol 10. In fine print on the back of the cover, bottom right corner, are the words, "Performance rights must be obtained prior to public performance". I bet if you call the publisher they will want money from a KJ to use this material in a live show. Maybe not, they may give you their blessing free of charge.
Maybe there is a "blanket plan" like is used in the church venue. Churches can pay an annual fee and ASCAP will grant them permission to use the works of any ASCAP member in their services.
A complete, simple guide to copyrights pertaining to music sure would be nice, huh?
Bars and clubs are required purchase blanket coverage for recorded and live music. This covers DJs, karaoke, bands, and even a jukebox and tv.alfalfa4381 wrote:Maybe there is a "blanket plan" like is used in the church venue. Churches can pay an annual fee and ASCAP will grant them permission to use the works of any ASCAP member in their services.
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alfalfa4381
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:06 pm
Any public performance of a copyrighted work, whether a recorded original version or live performance (cover tunes, etc) must be payed for through royalties. It is the bar/club/restuarant/church's responsiblity to pay those fees and they are the ones held accountable if it has not been paid. The venues pay a blanket fee based on a combination of the number of songs per week (estimated using the amount of time in which music will be heard) and the capacity of the venue (i.e. the number of people that will hear the music). As Wiseguy said, this is required for bands, DJ's Karaoke and even Jukeboxes.
The KJ has to worry about a different copyright, and that's the copyright of the media itself, known in the industry as Master Use rights. This is essentially what you pay for when you buy the CD, the right to use that recorded version of the music.
Both of these licenses must be in place to legally conduct a Karaoke show. Of course there are other licenses that are a part of this including whether or not the recording band had mechanical rights for the song they performed and recorded on the Karaoke CD. But that's on them not use as the purchaser of the music.
There you go, consider the can of worms now fully un-corked.
The KJ has to worry about a different copyright, and that's the copyright of the media itself, known in the industry as Master Use rights. This is essentially what you pay for when you buy the CD, the right to use that recorded version of the music.
Both of these licenses must be in place to legally conduct a Karaoke show. Of course there are other licenses that are a part of this including whether or not the recording band had mechanical rights for the song they performed and recorded on the Karaoke CD. But that's on them not use as the purchaser of the music.
There you go, consider the can of worms now fully un-corked.
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alfalfa4381
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:06 pm
Am I understanding you correctly - in order to LEGALLY KJ a private party, at say a rented community center where there is no bar owner that has paid for royalties, a KJ would have to have paid for this priviledge himself? If this is the case, then every KJ who wants to work private parties would have to pay this annual fee. Gee, if you own 10,000 songs that could be VERY expensive.The KJ has to worry about a different copyright, and that's the copyright of the media itself, known in the industry as Master Use rights. This is essentially what you pay for when you buy the CD, the right to use that recorded version of the music.
Both of these licenses must be in place to legally conduct a Karaoke show
As for the 2nd license needed, I understand the Master Use rights, but the example of the CD-G that I gave above does indicate that permission must be obtained to use the disc in a performance. So, if merely purchasing some CD-Gs include Master Use rights, and others like my example obviously do not include these rights, then I want to know what brand(s) include this right so I don't have to pay more fees to be legal.
In all technical terms, yes to KJ a private party the venue has to have paid the royalties to the powers that be. Most private partys are conducted at halls or other facilitiies where this is not an issue because they've got the licenses taken care of. However if you do a small backyard party, technically the owner of that yard needs to pay the performance license. It's not paid based on how many songs you have, it paid based on how many are estimated to be played and how many people will be there to hear it.
Now of course in the case of private party like that the chances of getting busted are pretty damn low since BMI would have to get a warrant and police escort to come on the property for that purpose, and again as I said before the KJ isn't the one on the hook, it's the venue owner.
It is this performance royalty that takes care of the permission to use it in a performance. In the case of a KJ, your master use rights are the rights you have to be in posession of that particular work, the performance license (that the venue pays) is what gives you the license to play those songs in a "broadcast" setting. And since I used the term broadcast, yes radio stations do have to pay the same type of public performance royalty although they are able to track the number of songs and don't have to estimate.
It's the law, learn it, know it, love it. ;)
Now of course in the case of private party like that the chances of getting busted are pretty damn low since BMI would have to get a warrant and police escort to come on the property for that purpose, and again as I said before the KJ isn't the one on the hook, it's the venue owner.
It is this performance royalty that takes care of the permission to use it in a performance. In the case of a KJ, your master use rights are the rights you have to be in posession of that particular work, the performance license (that the venue pays) is what gives you the license to play those songs in a "broadcast" setting. And since I used the term broadcast, yes radio stations do have to pay the same type of public performance royalty although they are able to track the number of songs and don't have to estimate.
It's the law, learn it, know it, love it. ;)
ASCAP/BMI are performing rights groups that collect the money required by bars to play music.
This license fee ranges from around $250 up to several thousand per year depending upon if you use DJs, Karaoke, Jukebox, bands etc or all of the above. Bands cost the most and karaoke costs the least. It is based on occupancy of the bar and frequency of the entertainment.
This money is paid by the bars. Not us as KJs.
This license fee ranges from around $250 up to several thousand per year depending upon if you use DJs, Karaoke, Jukebox, bands etc or all of the above. Bands cost the most and karaoke costs the least. It is based on occupancy of the bar and frequency of the entertainment.
This money is paid by the bars. Not us as KJs.
in canada we have a SOCAN license which is basically the same as bigdog said. it covers everything from movies they play to bands to jukebox, karaoke, Basically any form of entertainment where copyrighted material is used. the bar has to pay for this license.
BUT now something a little different.
how many of you have business licenses and what is your take on it? do you need one or not?
I do not have one, no band ever has one when they come to play, or any other entertainer.
a business license is a fee you pay to solicit business in a community. Do any of you solicit or is it word of mouth. I personally don't Solicit. they call me i don't call them. (the bar gets the customers, and they have their own business license already)
I have no signage outside of my show, only in my books does it say the name of my company and I do NOT do ANY advertising Anywhere.
I have actually made my case to town hall about this and won. So where do you all stand?
the only draw back to this is, I am unable to do any charity functions because i have no SOCAN or Business license myself. (so sad part i can't do my job for free lol)
BUT now something a little different.
how many of you have business licenses and what is your take on it? do you need one or not?
I do not have one, no band ever has one when they come to play, or any other entertainer.
a business license is a fee you pay to solicit business in a community. Do any of you solicit or is it word of mouth. I personally don't Solicit. they call me i don't call them. (the bar gets the customers, and they have their own business license already)
I have no signage outside of my show, only in my books does it say the name of my company and I do NOT do ANY advertising Anywhere.
I have actually made my case to town hall about this and won. So where do you all stand?
the only draw back to this is, I am unable to do any charity functions because i have no SOCAN or Business license myself. (so sad part i can't do my job for free lol)
The solicitation aspect is a little odd. Do you mean anyone that advertises anything needs a permit?
I have never heard of any type of advertising being considered solicitation. Here anyone that wants to go door-to-door selling something or perhaps handing out information needs a solicitation permit. Usually issued in the municipality where they want to do it.
I am not required to have a business permit. I assume these are issued as a small form of taxation. Most employers are required to take out a fee (tax) for the privaledge of working in that community.
I get paid cash so it's like it never happened, to an extent. I am not considered an employee.
The only advertisement restrictions here vary from town to town. These are called ordinances. They define building codes and such. They also regulate advertisement sign size and placement on or near the building and lighting restrictions. Some towns have banned neon lights on the outside of buildings. This makes no sense because most neon lights are very attractive. I cannnot see how they would cheapen a community. Unless they don't work right.
I have never heard of any type of advertising being considered solicitation. Here anyone that wants to go door-to-door selling something or perhaps handing out information needs a solicitation permit. Usually issued in the municipality where they want to do it.
I am not required to have a business permit. I assume these are issued as a small form of taxation. Most employers are required to take out a fee (tax) for the privaledge of working in that community.
I get paid cash so it's like it never happened, to an extent. I am not considered an employee.
The only advertisement restrictions here vary from town to town. These are called ordinances. They define building codes and such. They also regulate advertisement sign size and placement on or near the building and lighting restrictions. Some towns have banned neon lights on the outside of buildings. This makes no sense because most neon lights are very attractive. I cannnot see how they would cheapen a community. Unless they don't work right.
The only thing I have to practically beg bar owners for is the words
KARAOKE EVERY WEDNESDAY
I'm more than happy just to see that. My big ego doesn't require my business name or my first name to be on the sign.
I don't need my company name on the sign. So it's advertising but it's a generic advertisement.
If you just have them put KARAOKE on the sign without your name, is it still "your" advertisement? It could mean someone different every week. I don't see how they could determine it to be your responsibility. The bar is advertising that they are providing a service. You are not advertising with the bars sign, they are. Now I could see if it was your sign.
KARAOKE EVERY WEDNESDAY
I'm more than happy just to see that. My big ego doesn't require my business name or my first name to be on the sign.
I don't need my company name on the sign. So it's advertising but it's a generic advertisement.
If you just have them put KARAOKE on the sign without your name, is it still "your" advertisement? It could mean someone different every week. I don't see how they could determine it to be your responsibility. The bar is advertising that they are providing a service. You are not advertising with the bars sign, they are. Now I could see if it was your sign.
In the US only certain types of businesses need to have a license. It can also vary by state. In WI any business that is required to charge sales tax must have a license. KJ's and DJ's are not requried to have a business license because only a few specific services (photography being one I'm familiar with) are required to charge sales tax.
The sole proprietorship form of business in the US allows anyone to start a business and use their own Social Security Number as the tax identification number for their business. Now if you choose to register your company as a corporation, LLC, LLP, etc there is a fee for that.
The sole proprietorship form of business in the US allows anyone to start a business and use their own Social Security Number as the tax identification number for their business. Now if you choose to register your company as a corporation, LLC, LLP, etc there is a fee for that.
