Ok here's a situation I'm looking for opinions/ideas/etc on. About 10 months ago I played my last gig at a local club (It was the last of 12 gigs there). The owner called me a few weeks following that gig to try to book two more dates that I was not available for. Apparently he really needed to fill those dates so he found another KJ. Well he stopped calling after that and booked that KJ for a number of additional shows. Through the grapevine I found out that they were charging him considerably less than I did. Now this had been my lowest paying show so that's really low-balling for them to undercut me. So I assumed my days at his bar were done.
Well that was until this past weekend. My wife and I went into the bar with some friends to check out a band that was playing there. The owner came up and said hi and was very cordial, cool no hard feelings on either side. Well about 20 minutes later he pulled me aside and asked if I'd like some business. He told me he has weekends coming up over the summer that he'd like to fill. Then proceeded to tell me how the crowds have dropped off, etc. (Hmm cheap KJ, I don't have to wonder why) So I told him to call me and we'd work something out.
So here's my question. The business man in me says, this is a perfect time to put the screws to him and get a raise. He's realized that his current KJ isn't worth a damn and wants to bring me back to build back his crowd. The conservative side of me says, well if you demand a raise he may legitimately not be able to afford it and then I'd lose the opportunity all together so just do it for the price we had before.
So I'm torn. On one hand the extra money would be nice if I could get it. On the other, I don't want to be unfair to him nor do I want create a problem where there isn't one. I don't really need to add another gig right now so if it doesn't work out it's not the end of the world but I'd still like to keep a good relationship going. So in this situation, what would you guys do?
What would you do?
I would Just talk to him and explain that your rates have gone up but play a couple for the old price to let his crowd come back before the increase. I did this for one of the bars and they booked for 3 months which was 6 nights. The first two i did for the old price and then went up it was all agreed apon prior to ever setting up. After the first night he gave me the increase because he noticed such a difference in his crowd. Like I was told when I started this business as long as you are up front with bar owners and treat them right they will be upfront with you and treat you right.
Will he tell how bad the other KJ really is?
I would agree to do them, but I would tell him you will do so many times to get the crowd back at X price. And explain that once someone else kills a crowd it's harder to get them to come back because they found another place to go. After the crowd comes back after so many shows I want the new X amount.
If he goes for the deal great, if he doesn't great. Obviously he realizes he was losing money. Normally they don't get it until they are ready to go under.
You could also explain that sometimes a bargin isn't really a bargin if it kills business instead of building business.
By the way you just found out why the other KJ doesn't charge as much....HE SUCKS!!!!
Some KJs are just better than others and therefore worth more. You get what you pay for.
I would agree to do them, but I would tell him you will do so many times to get the crowd back at X price. And explain that once someone else kills a crowd it's harder to get them to come back because they found another place to go. After the crowd comes back after so many shows I want the new X amount.
If he goes for the deal great, if he doesn't great. Obviously he realizes he was losing money. Normally they don't get it until they are ready to go under.
You could also explain that sometimes a bargin isn't really a bargin if it kills business instead of building business.
By the way you just found out why the other KJ doesn't charge as much....HE SUCKS!!!!
Some KJs are just better than others and therefore worth more. You get what you pay for.
The bar owner is a businessman first. If he believes that he could make the same profit with less expenditure then he would almost have to try it. This guy appears to be honest, and in a subtle way, is admitting that he made a mistake. I would simply forget about what has happened and go with the same deal as before.
Of course, just like in any situation, if you start making him a ton of money it's time to renegotiate.
Of course, just like in any situation, if you start making him a ton of money it's time to renegotiate.
If you don't tell him what you expect to get, when the time comes he isn't going to like it.
Tell him up front. After X amount of time I want X amount of $$$$. If the crowd doesn't come back, you as the KJ can negotiate the price backwards. He is never going to negotiate the price up, willingly. You decide if it was a good night or a bad night. Give him a break if you honestly feel the night was not good for him money wise.
Never let them tell you how bad it was. You can tell how big the crowd is and about how much money he took in.
I have given money back when I know they didn't take in enough to cover me and the bartender. I decided, not them.
It makes you look like a good guy.
If you start to tell him you deserve more money, you look like the bad guy.
Tell him up front.
Yeah he made a mistake but mistakes cost money. That's how you learn. next time he won't be so stupid.
Tell him up front. After X amount of time I want X amount of $$$$. If the crowd doesn't come back, you as the KJ can negotiate the price backwards. He is never going to negotiate the price up, willingly. You decide if it was a good night or a bad night. Give him a break if you honestly feel the night was not good for him money wise.
Never let them tell you how bad it was. You can tell how big the crowd is and about how much money he took in.
I have given money back when I know they didn't take in enough to cover me and the bartender. I decided, not them.
It makes you look like a good guy.
If you start to tell him you deserve more money, you look like the bad guy.
Tell him up front.
Yeah he made a mistake but mistakes cost money. That's how you learn. next time he won't be so stupid.
Thanks guys, you brought up a lot of good points and counter points which is exactly what I needed. I think what I'm going to do is go with offering to do the first few shows at my old rate and then bump up after that and see how it goes from there. I think I can do that without risking spoiling the whole thing and I will also be clear with him that its going to be hard to rebuild the crowd now. The good news is when I was in there the other night, a number of my regulars were in the bar too. So hopefully they'll come out and bring some friends too. 
If you try to bump him up without ever mentioning it to him before you start he will think you are trying to screw him.
Let him know the starting price to get it rolling and give him a time table for it. I tell them it takes at least four weeks to get something going. So my price break will be 4 weeks. After that i play it by ear. If the nights are busy then the full price kicks in.
You can always give some back but he isn't going to offer you more money on his own. He will never think it's that good.
I would never go in and say this is my starting price without telling them the full price after the end of start up period.
Let him know the starting price to get it rolling and give him a time table for it. I tell them it takes at least four weeks to get something going. So my price break will be 4 weeks. After that i play it by ear. If the nights are busy then the full price kicks in.
You can always give some back but he isn't going to offer you more money on his own. He will never think it's that good.
I would never go in and say this is my starting price without telling them the full price after the end of start up period.
That's what I said I was going to do, I'll be telling him I'll go the first few weeks at a lower rate and then put a specific date on when it goes up. If I decide to give something back once it's gone up if the crowds aren't there, that will be my decision, but I'm not even putting that one on the table for discussion. We'll see how it goes when he calls.
