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KJ WITHOUT "ETIQUETTE"

Anything that doesn't fit in another category.
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sunshine54
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:24 am

KJ WITHOUT "ETIQUETTE"

Post by sunshine54 »

Hi, I'm new here, and I appreciate your time in reading my post! I apologize in advance for the rather long length of this post. I totally agree there are rules of karaoke etiquette for singers that help keep karaoke fun. A little background....my husband and I started singing karaoke about 2 years ago, although we had been to karaoke places prior to that just as listeners. We are not KJ's, just singers. On a positive note, we have met several great KJ's and other singers who have become our good friends. We have met great singers who unselfishly helped us to become good singers by offering tips and help, etc. I even met a professional singer who is also a vocal coach who has been working with me for quite some time. Because of karaoke, I've been invited to sing professionally at other venues, and now I will be working up to band singing and already have an invitation. The biggest compliment for me is when another karaoke singer asks for my advice! I love helping others as I have gotten help in the past. I am speaking from a singer's standpoint.

With that being said, my husband and I do not expect ANY special treatment. All we ask is for FAIRNESS. It seems like it should be rather simple. We have been to several places in more than one state, and have experienced both good and bad about shows. The best shows are the ones where the KJ has good quality equipment, keeps an orderly list of singers, keeps you informed about how long it may take to get a turn, doesn't play favorites, etc. Also, the good shows are when the KJ's and bar staff don't sing more than the customers, esp. when it is a very crowded show with 20 or more singers. Also, if there is a large number of singers, the KJ doesn't feel the need to put on a comedy act where you wait 15 minutes or more between singers while he tells every joke known to man :)

There is one place in particular where I found that I needed to speak personally with the KJ regarding a culmination of incidents. This KJ:

1. NEVER has an order of singers. He takes slips, but it doesn't matter what time you get there and put your song in. Even if you give him the first slip, you may have to wait for 15 singers ahead of you.

2. Everyone does two songs for their turn. This does take up alot more time, and works ok if it's not a busy night.

3. The KJ leaves his post for EVERY singer, as he has preprogrammed all the songs in his computer. He goes outside to smoke and sometimes doesn't come back until two or three singers are finished. We have to go up and check the computer list to see who's next and announce the next person many times.

4. The KJ sometimes will tell you that you are next in line, then proceed to put another person in right in front of you if they happen to walk in the door at that moment.

5. There are several women and men (friends of his and the bar owners) who walk in late, walk in front of singers during their performances, put a song in, and their turn is next. This has happened several times to us where we had our songs in for over an hour or more and got there very early. Several women blatantly flirt with the KJ, and magically, they sing 3 songs on their turn (which again, is before many of the singers who have been patiently waiting).

6. The KJ does many duets with the above mentioned women in addition to them taking their 3 song turns.

7. The owner has been approached about this by several customers (I had not said anything yet), and the answer they get is "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."

This is just a partial list about what happens at this place.

The last time we were there, I asked the KJ if there was going to be a last round (it was about 1 a.m., and sometimes they will play later, depending on the crowd). He informed that he wasn't putting in more singers, the owner wanted him to stop after the last singer in the computer was finished (which was about another 20 minutes). OK...that is ok by me.

All of a sudden, 5 more singers were added in, and several of them got another 2 rounds in and they played until 2 a.m.! When I noticed there was going to be another round, I asked if I could do one more song, and was told NO. After the show, I asked the KJ why he told me the show was over, then put in many other singers who had been up there no less than 5 times in just an hour or so? He told me he understood why I would be mad, and that the OWNER told him he MUST put these people in first because they are like his "family." He said they get special treatment every time.

I didn't cuss, yell or scream (like I've seen some people do), but told him in a blunt, yet calm voice that because of that, we were going to go elsewhere and that it's NOT acceptable.

Just recently, we paid a fee to attend a New Year's Eve party there. When we arrived, we found out the KJ and the owner allowed a friend of the KJ's to have her wedding reception there that night! There were kids running around (this is a BAR), and they did all the things you would do at a reception. We got our money refunded, but we would not have gone there if we had known. Our entire group felt as if we were uninvited guests at someone else's party. And, this was an advertised function where this man collected money to participate.

Again, I totally agree with karaoke etiquette for singers! But, I do feel this KJ broke all rules of etiquette he should follow. My husband and I always buy food, drinks or a combination thereof, we don't just order water all night long. We try our best to be considerate of other singers, we know how hard it is to get up and sing....we've been there as first time singers! But, when a KJ does these things, he invites problems between singers because people get upset at other singers when they are monopolizing the evening. I totally understand there are times when it's not going to be perfect, but this place is beyond that.

Again, thank you for your time in reading this. I appreciate the good KJ's who are considerate and want to run a good show so everyone has fun!


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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Unfortunately, KJs like this can be found everywhere. What I don't understand is why you would continue to patronize this jerk and the bar he performs at. You paid for New Years reservations there? What were you thinking?

It's exactly this type of KJ that prompted me to start by karaoke business some two decades ago. I rather enjoyed putting several of them out of business. I run the most strict and fair singer rotation possible. The only people who would disagree are KJs that run a lax rotation system.

My promise to my singers is "you will NEVER see another person sing twice before your next turn". Duets count as one turn for each singer and the same goes with groups. There are no exceptions EVER and bar owner get no input on how the show is run. I don't sing at my shows unless it's absolutely necessary.

It's the singers who make or break a karaoke business. If you all quit supporting the jerks like the one you described they will soon be out of business.
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Bigdog
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

:deadhorse:


There are KJs that somehow always seem to have steady jobs and there is no good explanation for it.

My guess is they are very cheap and or they cater to the bar owner very much.

But I also notice...his (and other KJs) special treatment for certain individuals...buys their loyalty. Meaning he has a "following."

That said...the standard question for a job interview for a band, DJ or KJ is...Do you have a following? His answer is always YES. The bar owners being STUPID IDIOTS like 99.9% of them are, only see $$$$$. (instant crowd = instant profits)

This is a natural reaction for a typical bar owner. I'm in business to make money. As I have said in my 18 years of doing karaoke...bar owners are idiots that do not know how to make all the money they could be making because they always do stupid things to hurt their business. (Without knowing it.) I have probably played in 100 different bars and it is always the same without exception. They always manage to kill business.

As YOU have pointed out in your story this has several affects.

#1. It "looks" like the KJ indeed has a "following."

#2. Certain individuals will get special treatment all night long.

#3. The bar owner will see the bar busy, but will not comprehend the fact that the KJ is never getting any new people to continue to be steady customers because of the KJs bad treatment of nonfriends. This is actually hurting the bar owners bottom line very much.

#4. You also say you continue to patronise his show....This confuses me.

There are a few reasons why you (or anyone) would continue to do so.

a. The sound system must be excellent.

b. You are the best singers there. Meaning almost everyone else sucks.

c. It's actually a fun place to be. Because of the other people that go there steady. Not because of the KJ.

d. the food and drinks are good and reasonable.

e. there is no other place to go for karaoke.

#5. Never under estimate the power of a cheap KJ. The bar owners want bargin prices....They fail to understand you get what you pay for.

#6. Talking to the bar owner about this is like this... :mad:

#7. Working with bar owners is like this... :mad:


I run a nonstop 100% karaoke show. I do not use stages. I personally hand each next singer the microphone. Which means I do leave the mixer. If I hear anything wrong with the sound mix I immediately go fix it. I do have personal contact with each singer. This helps me maintain a nice loyal following.

I run a fair rotation. I don't play favorites. The bar owner has .01% pull over whatever I do. There may be a time where I actually have to listen to the bar owner. However, the bar owner is not paying me enough for him to ruin my business reputation.

I am in business to help them make as much money as I can. I respect their business reputation and I expect the same. Building their business requires a steady influx of new customers. Because over time the old ones fade out from any number of personal reasons. The crowds are constantly changing. A KJ that only plays favorites has to constantly keep doing it or they will lose their following. They won't ever change.

My show is professional. There are times I sing during the night. This depends on how the flow of the show is going. I do not play filler music or dance sets. EVER. I must constantly read the mood of the nonsingers. I will sing whatever I think is going to help them remain in the bar. I do not sing other than on my spot in the rotation. Unless I get asked to sing in a duet.

Most bad KJs don't get it. That is why most fail.

Continue to run your show the most fair way possible. Do not cater to your friends or even the bar owner. He has his business in mind...not yours. The cream does rise to the top.
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spotlightjr
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:36 pm
Location: southwest Florida

Post by spotlightjr »

Yeah, I guesss what's hardest to understand is why you'd even consider going back after being treated so unfairly. If the bar owner supports this kj's behavior then the only recourse you have would be to seek karaoke elsewhere.
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sunshine54
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:24 am

Post by sunshine54 »

Thank you for all of your quick responses! You asked why I would even consider supporting a place like that. It's a question my husband and I had discussed on several occasions. I think BigDog made several great points that would help in answering your question. I am speaking from the perspective of a singer (customer), and I think this would be the reasons why other singers will frequent places like this, at least the people I know.

1. We have made great friends there that we have become close with. We love seeing them. We have all talked about going elsewhere because they also get this treatment, and they complain all the time. They are in the mindset where they try and rationalize the guy's behavior....such as.....he lost his wife recently and must be upset and therefore confused, he drank too much that night and can't remember what he's doing, etc. etc. They don't want to drive too far for karaoke....they live within 15 minutes. While I can totally understand that everyone's human and do have issues at times, but there comes a time where you have to say...Hey I feel sorry for the guy because his wife died, but you have to separate your work from your personal life at some point. It's not an excuse to treat people badly.

2. The food is OK, the prices are OK.

3. The sound system is pretty good if it's set right before the show. I've seen people try to adjust it when the KJ is outside smoking.

4. This KJ is a very talented singer....he used to perform in Vegas professionally (now retired). Over the years, he met other very talented singers from various functions, and several of those singers will come...some weekly, some less often. Those are his friends mostly that get special treatment. The others are friends of the bar owner (good singers or not), and women who throw themselves at him (good singers or not).

5. There are no places on our side of town that have karaoke. My husband and I drive no less than 1/2 hour to the nearest place, which was this one. The next place that has OK karaoke is about 45 minutes from home.

I think that we tried to rationalize going there so we could see our friends, but after last weekend, it was last straw. Regarding New Year's Eve, this was the reason we went there....to be with our friends. But now, they will have to see us elsewhere. Hopefully, they will make the decision not to attend there soon. I totally agree...if you don't go, eventually, the bar loses business.

Looking back, I have noticed that many "newbies" that have come in didn't come back after two or three times. The bar owner has lost many potential good customers because of this. I was approached recently by other customers who don't sing and just come to listen. They have asked me why certain people sing all the time over others. I even had one talk to the KJ about when I was going to sing again because they love my voice and didn't want to hear so and so sing five more songs. They did this on their own, I found out about it later. I also know several of these customers that stopped coming in. Many are their with their friends and family members they want to hear sing, but they never even got to sing one single time after sitting there all night. So, not only does the bar owner lose singers, he loses listeners.

One thing I didn't mention before was that my husband I own other property in another state that we also live part of the year in. We found a WONDERFUL KJ that we follow when we are there who runs his show like you all do. We have had owners of the establishments come up to us and say they want us back, they love our singing, and treat us with respect. We haven't found a place in our hometown yet that is as good as this one.

Sometimes, I think it takes a series of events to happen before singers finally say...enough is enough! You say...maybe next time things will be different. Then you realize, it's never going to change, and as BigDog pointed out, it's like beating your head against a wall. The KJ will never change, and some bar owners just don't care, and some don't realize what is really going on.

Again, thank you for your time in reading and responding to my posts. I really appreciate it!
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sunshine54
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:24 am

Post by sunshine54 »

One more thought.....we really wish you all were close by to us...we would be there! :)
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Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

KJs like this ruin the entire karaoke reputation.

Many bar owners feel that since they are paying you they have control over you.

First of all you are "paying" me with the money my show brought to your bar. You are paying me to help you make money.

You are not paying me to affect my reputattion in a negative way.

I don't tell you how to run your bar.

But I will tell you things that are working against me.

Like your bartender that hates karaoke and tells every and anyone at every opportunity how much they hate it. (They will not work on my night or get yourself a stupid KJ.)

And tell them to keep their mouth shut about what they hate because it's costing you money.

Or the bartender that can't keep the glasses full and people are telling me how long they have to wait for a drink.

Or your heater or air conditioner needs fixed.

I had a bar owner that liked to sing and also wanted the girls to like him. He kept coming up wanting to sing again and I had 25-30 other singers in line. I told him look around at everyone here. Do you want them to leave?

I said they are giving you their money. They can take that money down the street.

Keep in mind that people will think I'm playing favorites. Not realizing it's that bar owner doing it.

But I put a stop to it. No bar owner is going to ruin my reputation for me to work there. I'll walk. Did it before.

If a bar owner won't listen to the paying customers when they tell him why they won't be back...it's his wallet that lost out.

On the same hand...if a paying customer complains about the KJ even if they are wrong...the bar owner will back them because they spent a dollar.

I straighten that out real quick too. I treat everyone fairly and I don't care how much they spent. I don't care how good they sing. I don't care how they are related to you. I don't care if you are "paying" me.

Now you are screwing with my business reputation. And I don't like it. That's how I get my work.
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