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Media shifting w/o permission a violation of manu's rights

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How to Build a Home Karaoke System
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

What is the gain if...all the legit KJs stop playing and buying Sound Choice and Chartbusters discs just to avoid a possible lawsuit over a format shift that they have already agreed to when they allowed a 1-1 back up of their discs?

The precedence has already been made and it was by them.

Let's say there are 2000 legit KJs that stop buying their products...

10 discs per month at $20 per disc times 2000 = $20,000 PER MONTH LOSS

$240,000 per year... :shock:

That sounds to me like certain death....

Worth the risk?


DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

It all comes down to All Rights Reserved. The last time they authorized copying the tracks, Computer karaoke was either in it's infancy or non existent. Then Piracy hit and SC decided to change their tune to fit the times by denying all copies. They now realize that the new age of computer karaoke is here and they better get with the times and allow it with certain restrictions, the 1:1 ratio. They then realized that they had to also set it up so that they were certain that the ones running the computer shows were running 1:1. Hence the need for audits before they gave the rights that they reserved away again. one could just boycott the music altogether, fine more shows for people like me who still play the music. Certain death for the ones who stop playing SC especially if it makes up the biggest chunk of their library. Not good business because the singers who want quality tracks are going to go where they are played.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

From everything I have witnessed in the last year or so...

The singers just want one thing...a place to smoke while they sing.

They will go to the crappiest bars and sing on the crappiest systems just to be able to smoke inside.

They are no longer concerned about how they sound. My old steady smoking singers have just about disappeared.

They know how they sound on my system. But it doesn't stop them from singing on crap systems.

So the quality of the karaoke songs must not matter either.

About Sound Choice worring about reproduced music on a hard drive...who is measuring the quality to make a comparision between their disc and my back up copy?

Sound Choice no longer has a lock on quality discs...There are new companies popping up that sound very good.

Besides when you are drunk and want to smoke music/sound quality doesn't matter anymore...I can take you to 100 smoking karaoke bars to prove it. The need to smoke has taken over the need to sound good.

I'm ready to build a karaoke system I can carry in and set up in one trip.

Cheap microphones and all. And just do oldies karaoke shows.

I won't have to buy new music. Nobody is putting out any songs from the 60s and 70s anymore anyway. The return on investment isn't worth it to the karaoke disc makers. The audience for those songs is dying everyday.

So basically the oldies music you have now will be all you'll ever have access to again...

And I'll refer you to my end of live entertainment thread...karaoke just might be losing it's popularity for hand held entertainment...Face booking from the bar all night is more fun..
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

DanG2006 wrote:Certain death for the ones who stop playing SC especially if it makes up the biggest chunk of their library. Not good business because the singers who want quality tracks are going to go where they are played.
Sorry Dan but that theory doesn't hold water. I have gone for over a year without any SC songs and nobody has even noticed. They are easier to replace than you might think.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

If Sound Choice dies...it will be because of STUPIDITY...not pirates..

Maybe it's their new music selections...the RAP CRAP and four letter word songs...or the legal action harassments they started...

In todays business climate..which totally sucks..STUPIDTY kills more businesses than the economy.

I can prove that from the over 100 different bars I've played in in the last 20 years. Every bar that died, including the one I just mentioned in another thread was because of the bar owners STUPIDITY...nothing else....

Someone in Sound Choice made a business decision to do this....show me your hands if you think this is going to work out for them in a positive way...

Have they gained more than they have spent yet on these legal actions? Has piracy ended? Or have more legit KJs stopped working..and buying and using SC & CB discs..??

Crooks and thieves will always be around and thrive...look at our politicians...they still get arrested everyday..

Stupid people buy bars everyday and continually run them into the ground..

People still rob banks and get caught everyday..you can still buy drugs on every corner...

Because of stepped up actions being taken on piracy...it still happens..drugs are being sold everyday...it just might keep an honest person honest...but it will never stop a crook and druggie.

If they want to stop ar at least slow down piracy they need to concentrate on the multi riggers...not legit one system KJs that have backed up their music to protect and preserve their investment.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

Dan..before you did the audit thing and spent that money...did you put your music on a hard drive to be a pirate or protect your investment?

I'll rest my case on that answer. :wink:
DanG2006
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Post by DanG2006 »

I and SC never said that putting your music on a hard drive without permission meant being a pirate. There are three groups now, The Certified host, The uncertified 1:1 host and the Pirate. Reverse the order to find who I find the most unappealing. In my area it would mean certain death to a karaoke company if they were to boycott the ones that are requiring audits to allow use of their product on computer. Those that did cet certified has an edge because there are a lot of songs on SC and CB that aren't available elsewhere.

Before I did my audit, I was guilty of trademark infringement but not piracy. I did it to make life easier on me not to protect an investment. But I most certainly did not do it to be a pirate.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

DanG2006 wrote:There are a lot of songs on SC and CB that aren't available elsewhere.
Again Dan, this is just not true. Go to the KJ Pro and search for any SC or CB song title and you will find it on another disc brand 99.9% of time. If someone decided to remove these two brands from their hard drive, but still had a few of their songs that they couldn't live without, they could simply play them from the original disc.

Bigdog is right. If these companies drive a wedge between themselves and the KJs it will not turn out well for them or the karaoke business.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

DanG2006 wrote:I and SC never said that putting your music on a hard drive without permission meant being a pirate. There are three groups now, The Certified host, The uncertified 1:1 host and the Pirate. Reverse the order to find who I find the most unappealing. In my area it would mean certain death to a karaoke company if they were to boycott the ones that are requiring audits to allow use of their product on computer. Those that did cet certified has an edge because there are a lot of songs on SC and CB that aren't available elsewhere.

Before I did my audit, I was guilty of trademark infringement but not piracy. I did it to make life easier on me not to protect an investment. But I most certainly did not do it to be a pirate.
At one point in my karaoke career I had 3 systems. Buying 1 new disc for each system would cost me about $100. Not cheap.

I have in my posession now many Souncd Choice discs that look like swiss cheese when you hold them up to the light. This means those discs are now worthless because they will not play on any player. The foil has deteriorated. Many of these discs are now out of print. That means I lost money. My discs are carefully stored in a metal filing cabinet. I feel much better knowing I have them backed up to a computer.

I will also mention the bad discs got worse and some became useless while being stored. Not from use. Some were damaged from use. That is why I started doing 1-1 CD backups. I used the copy to play out to preserve my investment.

In my karaoke career I have spent well over $50,000 for music. Anyone that thinks I would not want to protect my investment is an idiot.

I still buy discs and the first thing I do is rip them to a computer before they can get scratched or the foil deteriorates... That is strickly to protect the investment I have made. Not sell the files or become a pirate.

So am I interested in spending more money for an audit that needs to be paid for every year? I will stop buying and using the music first.

I am not worried about not having certain songs or I wouldn't be editing my song book to take out the trash music...

The only one being hurt is going to be Sound Choice if push comes to shove. In todays economy they can not afford to lose customers..like me.

I am currently trying to stay away from their product now because of everything that has been going on over the last few years. Chartbusters was my next go to company...but that is going to change too.

They are no longer the kings of the hill. Their replacements are coming up behind them very fast. I have heard no difference in sound quality from some of these new companies. As I said earlier...the singers seem to be losing interest in how good they sound...my crowds reflect that from their lack of participation week after week and their patronizing of crap KJs and smoke filled bars. And their lack of singing most of the newest songs in my updates...unsung songs translates into lots of wasted money by me.

My update selections now are being driven strictly by request. If they request it I might buy it. I am no longer buying songs of the month discs from any company just to have them...as I have done blindly in the past trying to be ahead of every other crappy KJ. Crappy KJs are winning the battle just by being crappy and in smoking venues...not based on high quality sound as it once was. The tide has turned and crap sound and smokey air is the new hero..
mnementh
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Post by mnementh »

wiseguy wrote: It appears that what SC is saying is that when you format shift without their permission you degrade the quality of their original product and display their trademark while performing the degraded format shifted tracks in public therefore impugning the quality of the SC brand.
I've really only just had a look through this thread and the point wiseguy makes above intrigues me.

I had a quick look at the Soundchoice website and like most other Karaoke companies, they offer MP3+G downloads.

I wonder if anyone who has downloaded any MP3+G track from SC can enlighten me on the supposed quality difference between the downloaded track and one ripped by the disc owner.

From the file formats page;

http://store.thekaraokechannel.com/stor ... 32#formats

It seems SC offer their MP3+G files at 192Kbps.

Therefore, if I, for example, rip a disc at 320kbps then, in fact, I would be producing a HIGHER quality product than SC offer, so how could their argument hold water?

The quality argument could be further argued by what method the MP3 file is encoded as there are quite a few different methodologies.

As to the logo display issue, there are various methods available to strip out sections of video and so their other problem would also go away.

I'm certainly of the viewpoint of wiseguy and others here.

If SC want an argument, then the simple solution is for every KJ to dump their sorry asses in the bin and Hell mend 'em.

If enough KJ's did this with SC and CB, they'd damn quick change their tune (no pun intended).

Sandy.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Yes Sandy, its easy for us to see that the argument makes no sense. Add the facts that SC does no quality checks during an audit, and that the quality issue becomes a non-issue if you agree to an audit, its obvious that the trademark infringement enforcement is merely a legal ploy.

And I agree that if enough KJs pull all their SC music from their collections it would send a strong message to CB and others who would stoop to these tactics.
mr.dj
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Post by mr.dj »

The file for download on the Karaoke Channel are only licenced for home use and not for profesional shows. This is printed on their site:

According to the Terms of Use of the above site, these downloaded tracks are for personal use only and are not licensed for commercial use. Karaoke tracks for use by a KJ or Venue must be purchased on original Sound Choice CDG or MP3+G discs.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

mr.dj wrote:The file for download on the Karaoke Channel are only licenced for home use and not for profesional shows. This is printed on their site:

According to the Terms of Use of the above site, these downloaded tracks are for personal use only and are not licensed for commercial use. Karaoke tracks for use by a KJ or Venue must be purchased on original Sound Choice CDG or MP3+G discs.
Its not about rip quality anyway. There is no "quality audit".
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I still say a halfassed lawyer could beat this argument.

Second, if they use 192 and you use anything higher...you are degrading the copy because you are amplifing their lack of music quality...making their argument valid.. :roll:

They win... :shock: :lol:
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