Impressions Of The Summit

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:09 am

That is the whole point Bigdog they don't want to kill any business, they want a piece of every karaoke service business. One of the points of the summit sales pitch, that is what I think their entire piracy message was, look ok you have been bad, but we are willing to forgive you Mr. Pirate. Not only forgive you but give you a cheap path to legality. Like you said your library cost you ten's of thousands of dollars. Now you can subscribe to Cloud for 99.00 a month, and avoid legal problems. In other words they are selling insurance, protection whatever it is you want to call it. As far as us old timers are concerned, we can get with the program or get out of the business. I'm lucky that I can get out, I feel for those who can't. What is going to happen is all the independent karaoke service contractors are going to disappear. Those who remain are going to have new permanent partners, getting their piece of the action. The hosts will be like sharecroppers, the manus supply the product you supplying the labor, and then having to share the harvest aka profit with the master.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:25 pm

I remember hearing the same thing about cable TV years ago.

The reason was so you would pay for the programming and you wouldn't have to watch commercials...REMEMBER THAT PITCH?

Has anyone seen a commercial on cable TV?

Well now years ago Sound Choice told us...sure you can put your music on a hard drive we don't care....And now after everyone did it....you're illegal and we want paid again...

They may not want to kill the business but that's what needs to happen and could very well happen at thier own hands...it will look like a suicide...

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:35 pm

As to the No Fly list. It only covers what was produced after the ban on US products and those made before the ban so the GEM series is legal in the US. If you had it in your collection before the rules change then you can play it.

Years ago SC never gave that permission. It is only recently, IN November 2010 when 14 KJ's got together for the true first summit did they give permission for hard drive Karaoke after an audit of course to make sure you are not one of the ones who stole tracks from them.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 pm

You can play it Dan if the publishers don't get into the act like Kurt wants them to and stop hosts from playing any material that isn't currently licensed. That is the way the are going to address the problem of orphans and abandon ware material isn't it? If they use the publishers to stop hosts from playing anything but currently licensed material that just leaves SC and CB/DTE with their cloud service, right?

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:50 pm

And that would be bad? Personally I would love to see it happen in CT as I can't get in the door with the measly 21,000+ tracks I have because the bar owners are asking how many songs you have in your collection and how can you jusitify your price if the competition has four times yours library.
I tell them because I paid for every song I have, can't say the same of my competition. Think about it, each of my competition has the same library of songs and I have been in business longer than they have. Something is fishy there. I know of one company that doesn't have the same library and has been in business for about as long as I have.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:51 pm

I would only have to pull three discs that I know are from overseas. The rest are US based discs.

Post by **wiseguy** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:11 pm

DanG2006 wrote:And that would be bad? Personally I would love to see it happen in CT as I can't get in the door with the measly 21,000+ tracks I have because the bar owners are asking how many songs you have in your collection and how can you jusitify your price if the competition has four times yours library.
I tell them because I paid for every song I have, can't say the same of my competition. Think about it, each of my competition has the same library of songs and I have been in business longer than they have. Something is fishy there. I know of one company that doesn't have the same library and has been in business for about as long as I have.

Firstly, are you saying that you have 21,000+ unique (same song by same artist) karaoke song tracks? Secondly, any KJ who claims they have four times that many are either lying or are counting duplicates.

And as to "would that be bad"? Yes it would. There are KJs like me who have more songs than you that were all legally purchased over a course of many years in the business. Many of these are from discs produced overseas. Now these manus want to make sure that we can no longer use all our music while they work to monopolize the karaoke music industry. Bad?... damn right it's bad!

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:28 pm

Firstly, no that is the total of Legal songs I have in my arsenal, 6000+ SC,
3200+ Nutech (SCDG), about 150 CB and 11,000+ Media pro of which right now I have only unlocked 13 or 14 songs. I claim the 21,000 songs because the totals add up to that. I can unlock any of the 11,000+ songs at any given time. Granted I probably won't ever unlock all of them due to dupes that I already have in my system but I can still claim that number.

Secondly
If you already have the music you are golden. You just can't get anymore music from overseas or Canada because they are not licensed for use in the US. Even the artists on the no fly list are yours to still use as long as you have either a US disc or an overseas disc or track you bought before the rules change in 2011. So no it won't clear out the songs that my competition has but it will make it harder for them to get more. The only thing I can hope for is the publishers getting involved with the fight against piracy. So yes I want it to happen.

Post by **wiseguy** » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:36 pm

I didn't get to watch the entire summit but from what I did see it sounded to me like we are suppose to quit playing any songs by the artists on the no fly list.

Joseph Vangieri of DigiTrax in his opening presentation when talking about songs by artists on the karaoke no fly list said "if you're doing these in venues you really shouldn't be doing these".

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:10 am

[quote="DanG2006"]Firstly, no that is the total of Legal songs I have in my arsenal, 6000+ SC,
3200+ Nutech (SCDG), about 150 CB and 11,000+ Media pro of which right now I have only unlocked 13 or 14 songs. I claim the 21,000 songs because the totals add up to that. I can unlock any of the 11,000+ songs at any given time. Granted I probably won't ever unlock all of them due to dupes that I already have in my system but I can still claim that number.

Secondly
If you already have the music you are golden. You just can't get anymore music from overseas or Canada because they are not licensed for use in the US. Even the artists on the no fly list are yours to still use as long as you have either a US disc or an overseas disc or track you bought before the rules change in 2011. So no it won't clear out the songs that my competition has but it will make it harder for them to get more. The only thing I can hope for is the publishers getting involved with the fight against piracy. So yes I want it to happen.[/quote]

You better be careful what you wish for Dannie. If the publishers really do get involved in could have dire results for any host still in business. I do believe they will not bottom feed they will probably go after the manus first since they have material that was not properly licensed themselves, then the big venues and large entertainment companies. It will be some time before they go after the mom and pop small independent operator. Since there is not enough meat on the bone for the publishers. Nobody can predict exactly what will happen if the publishers start throwing their weight around. Currently EMI is suing SC and that suit still has to go through the court system.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:25 am

If your catalog is filled with overseas product you bought after the new rules came into effect then yes you have to pull those artists' songs. But my understanding, given to me by Hal Kinney himself who did the consumer part of the summit, is if you have discs or downloads, that you bought before the change then you can still play them. Tricerasoft is under the overseas ban as well. The only legally licensed in the US for downloads is All Star Karaoke customs and Karaoke Cloud.

By the way I took the time to check on dupes on my harddrive and came up with 15,000+ unique songs so I'm really not that far off from the 21,000+ total songs I claim to have to the bar owners. My competition can't say that.

Post by **wiseguy** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:22 am

I have close to 30,000 unique song titles and none of the KJs in my area have more songs. Even the ones who claim to have over 100,000 don't have any songs that I don't have.

Doesn't the KJ Media Pro have virtually the same songs as the cloud? Or is the Media Pro strictly CB music?

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:10 am

[quote="DanG2006"]If your catalog is filled with overseas product you bought after the new rules came into effect then yes you have to pull those artists' songs. But my understanding, given to me by Hal Kinney himself who did the consumer part of the summit, is if you have discs or downloads, that you bought before the change then you can still play them. Tricerasoft is under the overseas ban as well. The only legally licensed in the US for downloads is All Star Karaoke customs and Karaoke Cloud.

By the way I took the time to check on dupes on my harddrive and came up with 15,000+ unique songs so I'm really not that far off from the 21,000+ total songs I claim to have to the bar owners. My competition can't say that.[/quote]

I wonder if Mr. Kinney is aware of the recent supreme court ruling that protects American consumers against copyright holders and gives them the ability to buy foreign goods.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro ... iley-sons/

When you get to site hit search and then the case.

Post by **wiseguy** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:41 am

The Lone Ranger wrote:
DanG2006 wrote:If your catalog is filled with overseas product you bought after the new rules came into effect then yes you have to pull those artists' songs. But my understanding, given to me by Hal Kinney himself who did the consumer part of the summit, is if you have discs or downloads, that you bought before the change then you can still play them. Tricerasoft is under the overseas ban as well. The only legally licensed in the US for downloads is All Star Karaoke customs and Karaoke Cloud.

By the way I took the time to check on dupes on my harddrive and came up with 15,000+ unique songs so I'm really not that far off from the 21,000+ total songs I claim to have to the bar owners. My competition can't say that.
I wonder if Mr. Kinney is aware of the recent supreme court ruling that protects American consumers against copyright holders and gives them the ability to buy foreign goods.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro ... iley-sons/

When you get to site hit search and then the case.

Interesting read.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:35 pm

It's PRS that put the restrictions on overseas karaoke not US karaoke labels.