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New KJ, I have some questions

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The Lone Ranger
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Doesn't matter which side gets in bigdog if jobs don't come back then all of this is just so much noise. The trouble is it isn't the 1950's anymore and like it or not technology and globalization keeps marching on. If we decide to get off and become fortress America then all of the jobs we now have created by international trade will be gone. Couple this fact and that automation will take over many jobs in the next 20 years, unless a miracle happens we will have large masses of people with nothing to do. That is a situation which will have severe consequences not only in this country but most Western Industrialized nations.

I know you have a short memory span but in 2008 the economic meltdown was in full swing. It was old G.Bush that asked Congress for the first installment of the Government bailout of Wall Street. In retrospect maybe he should have let the banks just go under and to hell with too big to fail. By the time Obama got in office there was already two wars being waged and Wall Street was in free fall heading for the big crash. It was the new President that came into office with the worst situation in recent history. Like any good pilot he jumped in the cockpit and pulled back on the economic stick getting us out of the steep dive. The country was losing over 700,000 jobs a month at that point. Things have gotten better and now there has been the most consecutive months of job growth since 1990's when Clinton another Democrat was President. In up and down times I continued to work, I guess I was lucky. Lucky but not greedy, I realize that we are all in the same boat and we better start paddling together or else drown. A rising tide lifts all boats.


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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) "Hail Trump" with the roman emperor salute, really? Now the ugly head of Brietbart, and it's American spin-off Alt-Right rears up in full sight. At the meeting of the White-Nationalists we see the Misogynist, Xenophobic, and Racist philosophy of the far right in all it's glory. What amounts to KKK members in business suits rather than white sheets. I guess they couldn't get them back from the cleaners in time for their victory gala event. Trump did not tweet anything about this, but rather went after the cast of "Hamilton". I guess actors are more dangerous than Neo-Nazis. Funny I was raised to believe they were the bad guys, aren't they anymore? Have we decided that they belong at the political table after all. When the President elect of the United States doesn't take every opportunity to denounce these modern day Fascists, it makes you wonder if he wants to go back to the 1950's or the 1930's. If the electors are looking for some excuse not to vote for Trump, this would definitely make up my mind. According to English Common Law silence indicates that you agree with a situation, I hope Donald's not taking these thugs to task doesn't indicate that he supports their views. Makes you wonder? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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If you think thousands of low paying part time jobs are going to fix this country you need to wake up.

The only reason we won WW2 was because of our ability to mass produce our war machines...we could make more replacement tanks and planes and ammo than the enemy. That only was possible because of our steel mills, our automobile industry ( mass production assembly lines) our coal mines, our oil and gas and many dedicated American workers.

Today with nowhere near the heavy manufacturing capabilities we used to have we couldn't beat one of a kind. We have a limited amount of skilled labor, little to none of the heavy machinery needed to mass produce and supply a war machine for an extended period of time.

We only EXPORT 8% of everything we make. That means we IMPORT 92%.....so we could ask our enemies to build us a war machine to use against them...how well do you think that will work out for us? It will take years to gear up our heavy industry to anywhere near where we could be. We need to have the ability to defend ourselves...we need those high paying jobs back for many more reasons. We need our middle class back... That won't ever happen with part time jobs and $15 an hour burger flippers. Quick were under attack grab your flippers and pepper grinders...while they're all sneezing well smack their butts..that'll teach em.

We are in so much trouble it's not even funny....our population needs to have good paying heavy industry jobs. We need our middle class back from China and India.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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This renews my faith that the normal American people elected the right PRESIDENT. Who would have ever guessed this could happen in our country... :roll: Dirty dirty dirty....more proof comes out everyday....

http://observer.com/2016/11/mainstream- ... n/?ref=yfp
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The Lone Ranger
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Bigdog wrote:If you think thousands of low paying part time jobs are going to fix this country you need to wake up.

The only reason we won WW2 was because of our ability to mass produce our war machines...we could make more replacement tanks and planes and ammo than the enemy. That only was possible because of our steel mills, our automobile industry ( mass production assembly lines) our coal mines, our oil and gas and many dedicated American workers.

Today with nowhere near the heavy manufacturing capabilities we used to have we couldn't beat one of a kind. We have a limited amount of skilled labor, little to none of the heavy machinery needed to mass produce and supply a war machine for an extended period of time.

We only EXPORT 8% of everything we make. That means we IMPORT 92%.....so we could ask our enemies to build us a war machine to use against them...how well do you think that will work out for us? It will take years to gear up our heavy industry to anywhere near where we could be. We need to have the ability to defend ourselves...we need those high paying jobs back for many more reasons. We need our middle class back... That won't ever happen with part time jobs and $15 an hour burger flippers. Quick were under attack grab your flippers and pepper grinders...while they're all sneezing well smack their butts..that'll teach em.

We are in so much trouble it's not even funny....our population needs to have good paying heavy industry jobs. We need our middle class back from China and India.

8) Bigdog you need to wake up to the fact that you are living in the past. Today is today and not yesterday. In the time of WWII everything was labor intensive, there were no computers to speak of and no robots for sure. All the men were gone who were able bodied and we had over 14 million men under arms. The married men with children went last that is when they drafted my father he was 26 years old. The jobs that were done by men were done by women, my mother and her friends all worked in the defense plants around L.A. The average policeman was 45 to 60, the prisons were all emptied and the convicts given pardons if they served many did. I know about WWII since all of my relations were either in the Army or Navy at the time.

Today people are not needed to run factories, it is more cost effective to use computers and robots to mass produce. The jobs of just 20 years ago are no longer there, plain and simple. Our middle class did not go to China and India, they were left behind by forces that they have no control over. Trump says he is going to bring back millions of jobs, there never were millions. At the peak of labor usage in the coal industry in 1923 there were about 850,000 miners, today around 56,000. Most of the the lost jobs are due to technology advances and market forces, like your buddy Mitch McConnell has talked about. My father worked in construction from the 1930's untile mid 1970's. Even then machines were taking the place of labor. You used to have a line of men digging ditches with shovels, then came backhoe machines, bulldozers and crews were reduced to about 4 or 5 men. Even those jobs that went overseas will eventually come back when technology has advanced enough to make it cheaper here using the new techniques. When that happens the populations of India and China will be without work also.

It's a brave new world bigdog we are not going back even though Trump says this is going to happen. If there are no jobs then what, there will be no income tax. The only thing left to tax will be the large world corporations, since all the wealth and production will be concentrated in them. Of course these large corporations which are run by people like Trump and the Koch Brothers are working hard as hell to keep everything for themselves, and leave everyone twisting in the wind. Hell there are not even any work houses like when Dickens was a child. Everyone will be set adrift without any social safety net, when that happens then the fabric of society will really become undone. There are too many guns available in this country, and I don't think the masses will sit and wait to die. The question is will the transition by gradual and orderly, or will the global elites, try to hang on to power and wealth and get swept aside?
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Bigdog wrote:This renews my faith that the normal American people elected the right PRESIDENT. Who would have ever guessed this could happen in our country... :roll: Dirty dirty dirty....more proof comes out everyday....

http://observer.com/2016/11/mainstream- ... n/?ref=yfp

8) The only crime the Media committed was not taking Trump seriously in the first place. He should have been strangled in his political cradle, the persons who was most surprised by his victory was Trump himself and Kelly Anne Conway. He has tapped into the ugly side of our politics and is offering solutions that are not going to work. When he fails then what bigdog, the revolution, total anarchy?
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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What are Bigdog and his ilk going to say when Trump fails to deliver on his biggest promises? When the wall doesn't get built, when 11 million undocumented aliens don't get deported, when he doesn't ban Muslims from entering the country, when he doesn't destroy ISIS, when he doesn't do a complete repeal of Obamacare, etc.. All these failures while he has both houses of Congress.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:What are Bigdog and his ilk going to say when Trump fails to deliver on his biggest promises? When the wall doesn't get built, when 11 million undocumented aliens don't get deported, when he doesn't ban Muslims from entering the country, when he doesn't destroy ISIS, when he doesn't do a complete repeal of Obamacare, etc.. All these failures while he has both houses of Congress.

8) Hell wiseguy Trump isn't even going to go after Hillary. He says she has suffered enough. Go figure the beast with a heart. It isn't going over with Britebart so well, they are saying already broken promises, but then they are a bunch of neo-naizs anyway. Even the infrastructure looks like Congress will fight him over it, without that no jobs, then he really will have egg all over his face.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) I saw the movie "Soylent Green" again and I'm starting to believe that is the future for mankind, unless we change our evil ways. This movie said the Oceans were dead by 2022, but really it isn't supposed to start happening until 2050 to 2060 actually. What if through technological advances man is free from jobs? What do we do with the huge populations that were needed in the Industrial Revolution. The Communists believe in the workers being the base for an organized society. What if the need for workers vanishes, due to the use of computers and robots? There is no work to do and we still have huge populations, destroying our mutually shared planet?

Do we pay people not to work? This is basically what happened in the SG movie. Everyone receives rations cards and they line up for water, and their chips, which are made up of those who have passed on. I can see why the Roth character decided to get his lethal injection, he could remember when there was real food. The only jobs available were security related in order to keep the starving masses away from the wealthy business, and political leaders. Even these jobs will not be there in the future. Unmanned planes, tanks, drone missiles soon there won't be any need for military personnel, I can see the reason for this if you inject the human element into security, the human troops might not fire on the masses revolting, they could even join them. This happened in the French and Russian revolutions against the monarchies, these huge multinational corporations are the new monarchies and their CEO's the new royalty.

Let us look at what Trump is proposing building a wall, getting rid of at least 2 or three million people like that, and sealing our borders. There were farms in SG but they were very valuable and sealed off. The one thing we have is still fertile farmland even though the people Trump wants to get rid of harvest the food that will be on your Thanksgiving table today. Soon I would imagine that even the crops will be harvested by computers and robots. Trump does not believe in climate change and will probably cut the EPA making our environment even more toxic. Donald wants to exploit all of the energy sources he can, even the dirty ones like coal, and the Canadian tar sands. The tar sands are so dirty that the Canadians themselves who profit from them, don't want the pipeline routed through Canada. Route it through the U.S. across sacred reservation Indian land. Of course we say fine we don't care. I remember the character Roth he said "We could have stopped all this but we didn't give a Damn. I'm just as guilty as the rest of them". That is where we are at, trying to get by for our little span on earth not caring what happens to the future generations. One thing is for sure the world I leave will be greatly changed from the world I was born into. At this time of Thanksgiving I guess we should be grateful to be in this generation and not the coming one's, if things continue down this road we are on.

Happy Thanksgiving :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Latest vote tally has Hilary winning the election by over 2 million votes. Jill Stein is collecting money to have votes recounted in several key states because some election integrity experts have independently identified Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin as states where "statistical anomalies" have raised concerns. She has collected over $4.6 million in just a couple of days and will continue to collect more so she can do recounts in other states like Florida and North Carolina. Several EC electors continue to try to talk other electors into not voting for Trump. This election is far from over.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Sorry about the double entry my bad. :redface: :redface:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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The Lone Ranger wrote:
wiseguy wrote:Latest vote tally has Hilary winning the election by over 2 million votes. Jill Stein is collecting money to have votes recounted in several key states because some election integrity experts have independently identified Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin as states where "statistical anomalies" have raised concerns. She has collected over $4.6 million in just a couple of days and will continue to collect more so she can do recounts in other states like Florida and North Carolina. Several EC electors continue to try to talk other electors into not voting for Trump. This election is far from over.

8) It is the longest of long shots wiseguy, but then of course Trump winning was supposed to be like drawing to an inside strait. I keep trying to read all I can even though, I am old and reaching the point of just an observer where this American drama is concerned. I hope the electors do their jobs and use a rational approach to selecting the next President. In a way they are bound by law to vote the way their state went. The recount is not being conducted to help Hillary even though that might be something that happens. Rather it is for determining if there was cheating in the process as a whole, and how far the Russians might be involved in rigging the computer systems. You are right they have reached their goal as far as raising enough money for the recount.

Rather than propose policies that will improve things for the middle class, so far all Trump is doing helps the very wealthy, and cuts programs that help the lowest of the low survive day to day. Even the workers who have paid into the system their whole life time now run the risk of losing or reducing their Medicare and Social Security benefits. Couple this with the fact that since 2000 the two lines that marched together through most of the 20th century have decoupled. With the rise in productivity in the last century always came a rise in good paying middle class jobs. Now due to computers and robots productivity keeps rising, but the middle class has been hollowed out. This results in low paid service jobs and high paid tech jobs with little in the middle. A good example of this is the U.S. Postal Service. At it's height it was the largest single employer in the United states with over 850,000 full time employees. Now that work force due to automation of the mail processing has been reduced to under 656,000 the loss of over 194,000 good paying middle class jobs with benefits. Those jobs aren't coming back and as technology marches on I'm sure even more jobs will be eliminated from the Post Office. All types of clerical jobs are being eliminated, also robots are being used in warehouses, and soon transportation including trucking.

The answer is retraining the trouble is I don't know how many truck drivers, postal workers, or warehouse workers have the necessary basic skills to become computer repair or programmers? Even T.V. repairmen remember them, are a thing of the past since it is cheaper to by new than repair a set.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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I'm old too but I'm still signing petitions, sending letters, and donating to causes like the recount. The results of this election will not likely impact me personally but my kids and grand-kids are another story. Yes, many of the electors are bound by law to vote the way their state went but they are also bound by duty to do the job our constitution demands from them. Stein has been appealing to Hilary supporters for donations toward the recounts so I do believe she is doing this as much for Hilary as for any other reason.

You're right, our jobs are disappearing. It certainly doesn't help that millions of jobs that can be done here are being done in other countries. Free college tuition would go a long way in making sure people are ready for jobs of the future.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:I'm old too but I'm still signing petitions, sending letters, and donating to causes like the recount. The results of this election will not likely impact me personally but my kids and grand-kids are another story. Yes, many of the electors are bound by law to vote the way their state went but they are also bound by duty to do the job our constitution demands from them. Stein has been appealing to Hilary supporters for donations toward the recounts so I do believe she is doing this as much for Hilary as for any other reason.

You're right, our jobs are disappearing. It certainly doesn't help that millions of jobs that can be done here are being done in other countries. Free college tuition would go a long way in making sure people are ready for jobs of the future.

8) One thing you notice Hillary's camp is not getting into the fray as far as the recount or turning the electors her way. To me that means since Trump is not going after her she doesn't want him to change his mind by becoming a problem for him. She is keeping a low profile in order to avoid the President from setting his Republican Congressional dogs on her. Not going after her at least for now was a smart move on Donald's part. The one thing I think we can take comfort in is the Republicans mad with power will most likely go too far, and be turned out in 2018. Paul Ryan wants to hit the ground running, let's hope he runs right into a brick wall. One thing for sure year's of trickle down economics that were called by Bush I "Voodoo Economics" haven't got any better with time. It is still the process of sticking pins the economic doll, hoping the magic will somehow work. :roll: :roll: :roll:


P.S. A good example of cutting out all taxes is Kansas their Governor has been doing this for a couple of years. The net result is the State's surplus is gone and the public schools are on the verge of collapse. So much for supply side economics, I guess the witch doctors just have to shake the rattle a little more? :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Hot off the press two ethical lawyers one who worked for Bush and one that works for Obama both conclude that if Trump does not divest himself of his holdings and put the proceeds in a blind trust the electors will have no choice but to vote against him. His current situation is in direct violation of article one and nine of the Constitution. A sitting President cannot profit from his holding the office, he must be in a position where he cannot be bribed by a foreign power, nor can he use his office for personal gain. If he were to do so he could be impeached. This means Trump in the real world would have to cash out all of his business interests and put proceeds in a blind trust. He doesn't have that much time since it would have to be done before December the 19th, when the electors vote. He cannot pull the old I can be President and still run my empire trick, so what does he do? :oops: :oops: :oops:
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