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Do you remove songs from your songbooks?

Anything that doesn't fit in another category.
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Do you remove songs from your songbooks that you don't want people to sing at your shows?

Yes
6
35%
No
11
65%
 
Total votes: 17

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Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

I didn't invent upper, middle and lower class. It's all based on money.

The MAJORITY of business owners want to cater to a nice class of people. What is wrong with that???

There are many bars and restaurants that have dress codes. I didn't invent them. WHY to keep out the RIFF-RAFF.

Do you care about the type of neighborhood you live in? Given the choice would pick nice or ghetto??? Do you care about where your kids grow up and go to school?

I choose to live in a nice neighborhood. I choose to run a G/PG karaoke show. You are free to run the type of show you want.

It started with cavemen. There will always be the haves and the have nots. I didn't invent it.

Catering to the wild, anything goes crowd is not for me. The MAJORITY of the bars around any part of the country are not that way. I didn't have anything to do with it. It's how the MAJORITY of business owners choose to operate.


Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

THE FOLLOWING IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.



Report Urges FCC to Limit TV Violence

Updated 3:39 AM ET February 16, 2007


By JOHN DUNBAR

WASHINGTON (AP) - Television networks are free to sprinkle their programs with shootings, slashings, torture and other gore because the government has no regulatory authority over violent programming. But a draft report being circulated at the Federal Communications Commission says Congress can change that, without violating the First Amendment.

The long-overdue report suggests Congress could craft a law that would let the agency regulate violent programming much like it regulates sexual content and profanity _ by barring it from being aired during hours when children may be watching, for example.

"In general, what the commission's report says is that there is strong evidence that shows violent media can have an impact on children's behavior and there are some things that can be done about it," FCC Chairman Kevin Martin said Thursday.

The issue is bipartisan. Martin, a Republican, gave a joint interview to The Associated Press with Democratic Commissioner Michael Copps.



"The pressure to do something on this is building right now," Copps said, noting that TV violence comes up regularly during media ownership hearings he conducts across the country. "People really feel strongly about this issue all across this land. This is not a red state or a blue state issue."

The report also suggests that cable and satellite TV could be subjected to an "a la carte" regime that would let viewers choose their channels, a measure long supported by Martin.

"We can't just deal with the three or four broadcast channels _ we have to be looking at what's on cable as well" Martin said.

The report cites studies that suggest violent programming can lead to "short-term aggressive behavior in children," according to an agency source who described the report and asked not to be named because it has not yet been approved.

The recommendations are sure to alarm executives in the broadcast and cable industries, members of the creative community and First Amendment advocates.

"Will it count on the news?" asked Jonathan Rintels, executive director of the Center for Creative Voices in Media. "Will it count on news magazines like '60 Minutes' and 'Dateline'? What about hockey games when the gloves come off and people start punching each other?"

Rintels said such rules would create "huge gray areas of censored content."

"The fact that it's difficult should not take this issue off the table," Copps said, when asked about the potential difficulty.

A bipartisan group of 39 House members nearly three years ago requested a report by Jan. 1, 2005, discussing whether the FCC could define "exceedingly violent programming that is harmful to children." It also asked whether the agency could regulate such programming "in a constitutional manner."

Broadcasters are expected to object strenuously to any anti-violence regulatory regime, but have been skittish in going on the record.

Generally, broadcasters and cable companies say parents should take responsibility for what their children watch and take advantage of blocking technology, like the V-chip. Broadcasters also claim their shows are becoming edgier to keep up with increasingly violent fare on cable networks.

Dan Isett, director of corporate and government affairs for the Parents Television Council, said the industry's campaign to make parents the violence police is "purely designed to convince the Congress that they (programmers) are being responsible."

The parental blocking technologies are insufficient due to a flawed television rating system, he said. As for the argument that cable is pressuring broadcasters to be edgier, Isett believes that's nonsense.

"Virtually all content is owned by six major media conglomerates," he said. "They own what's on cable."

The commission could vote on the report at any time. Martin, Copps and Republican Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate are expected to vote in favor. Democratic Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein was not immediately available for comment. Republican Commissioner Robert McDowell is the potential wild card.

McDowell, a father of young children, issued a statement saying he is "deeply concerned about the effects of television violence" but added the "first line of defense rests with parents."

SO I guess I'm just nuts......... :roll:
Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

Clean up your act or someone will do it for you. :shock:

That's why radio plays the clean versions of songs.

The majority of the population feels the same way I do.

X rated movie theaters are not the majority.

Dive bars and restuarants are not the majority.

Clean musical content is the majority.

Read the part about violent behavior.

Playing that type of music can have the same effect on the drunken 21ers, with testosterone issues. Drinking to see how fast they can get wasted.

This is the part that I want to avoid or drastically cut down on. It's my $50,000 worth of stuff that I'm trying to protect.
letitrip
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:47 am
Location: Jackson, WI

Post by letitrip »

Well as I said before, you're free to run your business how you see fit and you've found a niche that works for you so that's terrific. What I see as pompous and arrogant is the way you look down on the so-called Riff Raff and "21ers". We were all that age at one time, some of us a closer to that age still than others. Then you continue that by looking down on those of us that chose to play that scene.

For the record, that's the scene I enjoy the most. I like playing the small clubs and even dive bars where you get a rowdy crowd. Our show is all about being a high energy party. That's our groove that's where we perform best and that's where we get the most compliments by far. I personally prefer to stay away from the low-key, polite golf clap, oh little Johnny's going to sing for us type shows if I can. Not saying we don't do them and we don't have fun doing them, but it's not our bread and butter.

We bring people into the bars because of our high energy, no holds barred, entertainment at all costs type of show. It works for us, it doesn't work for you. That's cool. But there's no reason or justification for you to feel that you are somehow higher class than the rest of us because of the scene you choose to play. It's foolish and ignorant if you truly believe that.

On an ironic note, the only aggressions we've ever witnessed at one of our shows occured while someone was singing Paradise By the Dashboard Lights. I guess it was just too much meatloaf for one person to handle :lol:
Let It Rip Karaoke
DJ Tony
http://www.letitripkaraoke.com
Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

I had a 77 year old lady that wanted to sing Margaritaville as the last song of the night. She said she wanted to get the crowd going. I told her I was trying to get them to calm down. She got half way through the song and a five man fight broke out. The owner got punched in the head and everything came to a halt. I told her she is never singing that song again. :lol: Trouble making parrot heads.


I don't consider myself better than everyone. I just want to play to an older more mature calmer crowd.

No hard feelings.
Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

The myth of running a totally High energy karaoke show is totally busted.

In over 15 years of my exposure to karaoke from all the KJs I have seen and heard about, there can be no such thing unless......


1. You only have 2000 songs in your book that are truly high energy, such as rap, hip hop, heavy metal, punk, grunge, some pop, techno and polkas.

This eliminates thousands of love songs/ballads, 75 % of all the country songs, 50 % of the pop/rock songs and thousands of other various types of music.

2. Or anyone that wants to sing any of the eliminated songs, keeps getting moved to the back of the bus. Such as in an unfair rotation. Or anyone singing such songs is made to feel unwelcome or put down for picking something that didn't fit your show criteria.

I have seen shows where the KJ moved you to the back of the rotation if you put in a slow song. And I have seen a KJ that made everyone put the slips in a box and she would go through them to pick out the songs she wanted to play.

3. Your crowds are all under 30.

4. Given the diversity of age groups, talent levels and musical tastes, it seems impossible, unless all of the participants are constantly jumping around, dancing and making noise during each song sung. With not much attention and courtesy being paid to the singers.


A totally high energy karaoke show is impossible. There are just too many other types of music to be sung that are in no way, shape or form, "HIGH ENERGY."



I play continuos, non stop karaoke music for the entire 4 hours, without a break in the music, without filler music or playing dance music from regular cds. No dead air or blabbing between songs. That is a s close as you can get to a high energy karaoke show. The karaoke music never stops or is interrupted with non karaoke music, or anything else. Except for a brief announcement between rotations. I do not mess with the rotation. I don't care what type of song comes up next, it gets played. I don't care about the tempo, it gets played. I don't care about the talent level of the singer, it gets played.

This is my definition: Uninterrupted, 100% pure, "HIGH ENERGY KARAOKE."
letitrip
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:47 am
Location: Jackson, WI

Post by letitrip »

Well your idea of high energy and mine differs significantly. First of all, "filler" music as you call it, plays into what we do. We always have a dancefloor and the dancers typically enjoy getting some time to dance to recorded tracks in addition to the karaoke singers. Our house mix includes a variety of well known dance songs and we use that to our advantage. We also use our "blabbing" between songs to work the crowd. See I've watched KJ's that do the human juke box thing and at the bars we play, that just doesn't work. I don't mean this as an insult, but what value do you add as a KJ if you aren't talking or crossfading to other music. Seems from what you've described that you could easily be replaced with one of those CAVS Karaoke Stations.

We don't control what people sing, so yes there are slow songs sung too. You learn quickly as a DJ, Band Member or KJ that slow songs can also work well in your favor as you work the crowd. We don't put people off or edit rotations based on that, however we do have a good feel for our guests and know how to bring the levels back up appropriately after a slow song or two or three. And yes, that may include one or the both of us doing a song and getting into the crowd to get their participation too. It's part of our job as we see it.

You've confused High Energy with Non-Stop energy, the two are very different. Non-stop energy will kill a crowd just as easily as dead air and slow songs. You have to have a mix and the flexibility to taylor things based on the crowd.

You've got the niche you've chosen, and that's good for you. But don't pretend to understand the niche we're in because you've made it clear you don't. We work our crowds, we get them fired up and we leave them wanting more at the end of the night. It's our job, it's what we do and it's what keeps the customers coming back to the bars for Karaoke nights. The bar owners love us, the guests alwasy have raving reviews for us at the end of the night, so thanks but we'll be sticking to what works for us just as you will what works for you.
Let It Rip Karaoke
DJ Tony
http://www.letitripkaraoke.com
Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

What I described is karaoke as it started 15-20 years ago. What you describe is a hybrid version of DJing and some karaoke. So we are not the same. I practice pure karaoke. The singers get to sing all night. I can keep the non singers, which always out number the singers by 2-3 times happy and spending money, without dance music sets.

You are right that crossfading, beat matching and such is what DJs do. It is not done in karaoke.


Karaoke started out as people getting together to sing.

DJs started as people getting together to dance.

I have a karaoke business.

You have a combination karaoke/DJ business. There is a big difference. Depending upon how much dance music you play per night will depend on what you should be called. Playing more and more dance music will chase away more and more singers. You have chosen to to cater to the non singers over the singers. That means that you are not as much karaoke as you would claim to be. Shortly you will have to change your name to the "kings of DJing."

Advertised karaoke nights should be just that.

If your non singers want to dance then do an advertised DJ dance night.

I will not turn my back on my singers to cater to non singers. I want them to stay and spend money but they are not my main focus.

You do not go to a band night and ask them to do karaoke for you.

You don't go to a DJ dance and ask the DJ to do karaoke for you.

Why should anyone go to karaoke and expect you to do other things for them?? Karaoke is for the singers, period.

People are free to dance at karaoke to any song they want. But singers can not sing, while you play dance music. So you are ignoring the singers (the reason you call yourself a KJ) to pacify the non singers.

I notice it's not KJ Tony...........
letitrip
Posts: 341
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:47 am
Location: Jackson, WI

Post by letitrip »

I knew the minute I hit the submit button on that post you'd read things into it that weren't said. First, we don't cater to non-singers over singers. We don't favor dance music over karaoke when we're there to provide Karaoke services. However, there is always time between songs while waiting for singers to come up, locate their friends, etc where fill music is good. Now if we see a bunch of people getting into it (and often times its the singers too) we let the folks dance to the end of the song. It's not like we're playing blocks of songs for people to dance too.

Also we do limit the amount of time that we'll let the house music go on based on our rotation. If there are a lot of singers, no we're not going to let the song run it's course first. However, if we've got a slow spot in the night, we're more apt to play out the house music. What do you do when you're waiting for singers to come up? Yell at them to hurry, sit on dead air? What do you do?

So sure, if you want to look at it as a hybrid, that's fine. Our bars and guests have given us nothing but positive feedback on our use of house music to get the party going. We don't run singers off, we keep them coming back and following us from show to show. You're right about one thing, we don't go to a show just to provide Karaoke, we go there to enhance the entertainment. We take a bar full of people with different musical interests and turn it into a party. That's why people hire us.

I hate to say this, and I don't mean this as an insult, but KJ's like you've described yourself are exactly why we got into this business. Both I and my business partner have seen the good the bad and the ugly of KJ's for many years. We took the what we liked best about each of the KJ's we've seen and brought it together into a full entertainment package. Bars, clubs, restaurants, etc don't hire us because they want people to sing, they hire us because they want people to be entertained (or entertain themselves which is obviously a huge part of Karaoke). Entertaining the entire bar, singers and non-singers alike, is what keeps people coming back for Karaoke nights. Personally, I think it'd be terribly foolish to ignore either the singer or the non-singer. You need to have your "watchers" as well as your singers. You're there to make money for your client, that's why they hired you. Ask most club owners and they'll tell you that the singers are the ones that drink the least. It's the watchers that come in and drink up while everyone else is up on stage giving it a whirl that make the real money for the bar.
Let It Rip Karaoke
DJ Tony
http://www.letitripkaraoke.com
Marlena
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:25 am

Post by Marlena »

" Riff raff can mean people that get drunk and look for fights, that drink to see how fast they can become obnoxious, they can be people that live under bridges and want to come in to warm up that you wouldn't want in your bar, or they could be winos that look and act bad. What would you call them? And would you want them in your upscale bar???? That's the reason to have an upscale respectable place. So you can distant your self from people that can't/don't/won't conform to the rest of society. People that have any respect for themself and others don't act this way. And respectable people don't want them hanging around chasing away quality customers. "

OMG!!!!

1) HOW IS THIS CAUSED BY THE MUSIC YOU ARE PLAYING?
2) IT'S NOT YOUR JOB TO WEED OUT THE CLIENTELLE, IT'S THE BARS, THE LINE BETWEEN YOUR JOB AND THE BARS HAS NOW BECOME BLURRED.

"I and the majority of business owners do not want to cater to the RIFF-RAFF. Why would anyone?"

3) THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE IS UP TO THE STAFF AND THEY HAVE THAT ABILITY! THEIR CHOICE NOT YOURS. THAT SAID I WILL APPROACH THE BARMAID AND TELL HER THERE IS A PROBLEM IF SHE DOESN'T NOTICE IT. I'M ON A STAGE 2 FEET ABOVE THE WHOLE CROWD SHE IS ON A CROWDED FLOOR AND NOT ABLE TO SEE THROUGH THEM.

Marlena
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I play continuos, non stop karaoke music from the first note to the last.

I do not use a stage. I set up on the floor with everyone else.

I use 3 cordless microphones, people can sing from anywhere in the bar. So I have a microphone in the next singers hand before it's their turn to sing. One song ends, as it fades out I say, that was So & So, applause as the next songs intro starts. No need for filler music. I don't even carry one regular music cd with me. I never play anything but karaoke music. If it's dead, I'll entertain the crowd. I can sing almost 600 songs. If I had to and my voice holds up, I could do the entire four hours myself.

I average at least 20 singers per night. The rest are watchers and they always out number the singers. Without dance sets. They can dance to karaoke music just as well. I must sing better than I think I do..... :lol:


Making money for the bar is my #1 priority. If they don't make money, I look bad. No KJ around here works more than me. The majority have crappy sounding systems and small selections and unfair rotations. So I took the best of all and used it. What they screw up, I leave for them to stay unemployed.

I am not insulted at all. But I think by advertising a karaoke night that has everything including the kitchen sink is a little deceiving. Singers live for one thing. If I tried to start doing filler and dance sets my singers would bail. I won't go to karaoke if they do other things. We each have to do what makes us money. 100% pure karaoke still works very well here. (If I'm doing it.) :roll: :lol:
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

I run my shows according to what I am hired to do. I offer four choices.

Karaoke Only
These are performed nearly identical to the way Bigdog describes his (with the exception of censored songbooks). It is continuous karaoke with no filler music and no DJ music.

DJ Only
Songbooks and wireless mics don't even leave the van. Strictly dance music and stage lighting.

Karaoke with DJ
Mostly karaoke unless dance music requests are made or I deem it necessary.

DJ with Karaoke
Mostly dance music with intermissions for karaoke song requests.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

Marlena, I didn't see you post before I wrote my last reply.

Think about it this way. If you have a country band playing, they attract a country type crowd. It will be a rather laid back, red neck crowd, dressed in cowboy boots and jeans.

If you have a punk band playing you'll get a punk crowd. There will not be much diversity in the crowds. Hard core to their type of music and their actions and dress will reflect that. And their reactions to that music will be wild.

Same thing with karaoke. If you allow the big swearing and wild songs all night, you'll get that kind of crowd. Along with the higher possibility for trouble to occur. The type of music you play directly determines the actions/reactions of the crowd. If they can get away with anything, they will.

The wilder the crowd the more chances to attract the RIFF-RAFF. You don't find them at a church picnic with "Christy" music. WHY NOT????

Yes it is the bar owners responsibility to contain the crowd, but wild music and a swearing free-for-all doesn't help the situation. You can drive them in to a frenzy or you can kill them with boredom. YOU have that power.

Try playing 20 slow songs in a row. What effect will that have on the crowd? Play 20 wild songs in a row, what will that do? You are most definitely in control of the entire crowds reactions. People will stay or leave depending on how much they like what is being played and for how long. The type of people the music attracts will also be a direct reaction to the type of music and duration of that music. If people want to be happy and safe, they will pick a more calmer musical experience. If they want the big excitement, they will find it and all that goes with it.
Bigdog
Posts: 2937
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Post by Bigdog »

I have a karaoke business and that is all I offer on a regularly scheduled karaoke night.

Private party or wedding would have me playing regular discs too. However I really do not like to DJ, so I don't seek out those events.

Karaoke started out as a totally singing event. That is what I offer. For me to cater to the non singers by playing regular cd music on a regularly scheduled karaoke night, insults the singers.

Go to a regularly scheduled DJ night, if you expect to dance all night. Only a moron would not know what a karaoke night is and means.

Nobody asks the band to do karaoke. A dance with a DJ doesn't mean they have karaoke too. So why should a KJ be expected to play anything but?? I don't see the logic. If you want a DJ, hire one. I'm a full time KJ, not a DJ that plays karaoke music once in a while.

Playing dance music more and more will kill the karaoke business. When you play half and half are you a DJ or a KJ? When you play more dance music than karaoke you are not a KJ. You are a DJ that plays some karaoke. The less karaoke music you play the less you will be a KJ, until you have no singers at all. Then what will you be?????

If you play dance music long enough, the bar owner will figure out that he can get an actual DJ to do the same thing he pays you to do. You will work yourself out of a job and out of business. It is the reason I will remain pure 100% karaoke music all the time, at a karaoke night.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

When you play half and half are you a DJ or a KJ? When you play more dance music than karaoke you are not a KJ. You are a DJ that plays some karaoke.
I am an entertainment provider the provides karaoke and/or DJ entertainment. If an entertainer sings and dances, is he a singer or is he a dancer? If he dances more that he sings, is he no longer a singer?
If you play dance music long enough, the bar owner will figure out that he can get an actual DJ to do the same thing he pays you to do. You will work yourself out of a job and out of business.
Well, in 15 years it hasn't happened yet and there are no indications that it will. Your typical DJ does not have the karaoke capability that I have. It's called versatility.
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