http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090428/tv_ ... _indecency
Family values rule. Decency at public venues will prevail.
Decency Issue.
LOL I was wondering how long it was going to be before you took it there.
It's the same story. I don't like it, I find it offensive and unnecessary, but not to the point where I am going to stop frequenting a place because they have songs that contain those words.
Picture this ... 60-year-old bartender gets up to sing "I'm Gonna Love You Tonight", a beautiful old country love song. Except ... granny changes the words to "I'm gonna f*** you tonight. Crowd goes WILD!! They LOVE it! It just leaves me shaking my head.
But, let's take a look at another song ... I Touch Myself. This song has very clean lyrics, but it never fails, the girls that get up to sing it seem to be advertising themselves as sl*ts. Again ... the crowd loves it.
I just go out to have a good time, sing a few songs, and watch the drunks make fools of themselves.
Back to the topic though ... I agree, it's certainly generational. Our folks were probably shocked at our music and vocabulary. We can't forget how obscene Elvis was to the older generation.
I do think TV should be above that kind of language. Any venue where young children might hear it should be censored ... in my humble opinion.
It's the same story. I don't like it, I find it offensive and unnecessary, but not to the point where I am going to stop frequenting a place because they have songs that contain those words.
Picture this ... 60-year-old bartender gets up to sing "I'm Gonna Love You Tonight", a beautiful old country love song. Except ... granny changes the words to "I'm gonna f*** you tonight. Crowd goes WILD!! They LOVE it! It just leaves me shaking my head.
But, let's take a look at another song ... I Touch Myself. This song has very clean lyrics, but it never fails, the girls that get up to sing it seem to be advertising themselves as sl*ts. Again ... the crowd loves it.
I just go out to have a good time, sing a few songs, and watch the drunks make fools of themselves.
Back to the topic though ... I agree, it's certainly generational. Our folks were probably shocked at our music and vocabulary. We can't forget how obscene Elvis was to the older generation.
I do think TV should be above that kind of language. Any venue where young children might hear it should be censored ... in my humble opinion.
Fortunately, Rap (or as I call it Cr*p with the "C" missing) doesn't get sung(?) very often over here.
Possibly because the I.Q. of the cretins who try it is so low that they can't actually read the lyrics onscreen!
There are a couple of tracks in the standard book with the F-word (Sex Pistols, for example) in them but in general, swearing on the mike over here, is a No! No!
However, at the end of the night, when much ale has been thrown down their necks, there are always a couple who try and add to the dictionary with some choice epithets, or two.
Sadly, all you can do is shut down ASAP and try not to get involved in an argument.
Sandy
Possibly because the I.Q. of the cretins who try it is so low that they can't actually read the lyrics onscreen!
There are a couple of tracks in the standard book with the F-word (Sex Pistols, for example) in them but in general, swearing on the mike over here, is a No! No!
However, at the end of the night, when much ale has been thrown down their necks, there are always a couple who try and add to the dictionary with some choice epithets, or two.
Sadly, all you can do is shut down ASAP and try not to get involved in an argument.
Sandy
I just had this conversation with a bar owner. He doesn't want all the swearing because he wants a family atmosphere. He is happy to hear that I have edited out all of those songs.
People need to want to stay in the bar, not leave because of something they might find unsuitable or objectionable.
He told me about a good regular customer he asked to leave during a daytime hockey game. He was drunk and swearing while there were families in the dining side.
People need to want to stay in the bar, not leave because of something they might find unsuitable or objectionable.
He told me about a good regular customer he asked to leave during a daytime hockey game. He was drunk and swearing while there were families in the dining side.
Maybe this should be it's own topic, but I have a huge issue with children being in a bar. I'm not talking about a pizza place that sells beer, I'm talking about the bars that children can go into. Our local sports bar, for instance. Children are allowed to be in there until 8:00 at night. Granted, they do serve food up until that time, but when I went out to dinner with my kids I certainly did not take them to a bar. Even without the language issue, I just don't think it is a good environment for kids. Maybe I'm just a prude ...
ETA: Kudos to the bar owner for stepping up to the plate.
ETA: Kudos to the bar owner for stepping up to the plate.
Kids are allowed til 10 PM. But most of these places are bar/restuarants. Usually they are separated by some type of room devider. I'm not sure if kids can remain on the restaurant side all night.
Believe me the last thing I want to see in a bar is (RUG RATS) kids.
Most people go out to get away from their kids and I don't want to see them running around unattended. This is a bar not kindergarden daycare. Make you kids sit down and shut up.
It's not only kids though. Grown ups aren't all open for anything goes and the trouble that could possibly arise from it.
When I go out I don't want to be around a bunch of yahoos acting like jerks. I don't go to those places no matter what's going on there. And I certainly wouldn't drag kids with me.
This is why pool tables and bike nights keep the family atmosphere away.
Believe me the last thing I want to see in a bar is (RUG RATS) kids.
Most people go out to get away from their kids and I don't want to see them running around unattended. This is a bar not kindergarden daycare. Make you kids sit down and shut up.
It's not only kids though. Grown ups aren't all open for anything goes and the trouble that could possibly arise from it.
When I go out I don't want to be around a bunch of yahoos acting like jerks. I don't go to those places no matter what's going on there. And I certainly wouldn't drag kids with me.
This is why pool tables and bike nights keep the family atmosphere away.
If it is a restaurant that also has a seperate bar, I have no issue. It's just the bars that sell food and have the kids in there that I dislike.
I think all the seperate areas that used to be for smokers should be for folks with kids. I get so tired of seeing kids misbehaving and their parents do nothing about it.
But once again, I agree with you. When I'm out to enjoy myself I would rather not be bombarded with F-bombs every two seconds from individuals who never learned to speak the language correctly or just don't care who they offend.
I never thought of pool tables bringing in a rowdy crowd, though. I'll have to start paying closer attention to those playing pool.
We have some local bikers who show up on a relatively regular basis to the place we go. I've yet to see them cause any trouble and they usually aren't the ones throwing the profanity around, that seems to come more from the college crowd.
Interestingly enough, usually when there is trouble it isn't caused by any of the regulars.
I think all the seperate areas that used to be for smokers should be for folks with kids. I get so tired of seeing kids misbehaving and their parents do nothing about it.
But once again, I agree with you. When I'm out to enjoy myself I would rather not be bombarded with F-bombs every two seconds from individuals who never learned to speak the language correctly or just don't care who they offend.
I never thought of pool tables bringing in a rowdy crowd, though. I'll have to start paying closer attention to those playing pool.
We have some local bikers who show up on a relatively regular basis to the place we go. I've yet to see them cause any trouble and they usually aren't the ones throwing the profanity around, that seems to come more from the college crowd.
Interestingly enough, usually when there is trouble it isn't caused by any of the regulars.
Sabrina the Cat
Not all people playing pool are Riff Raff.
But pool tables have a stigmatism for being the cause of trouble & fights.
Accusations of cheating or losing the game can lead to fights because of unpaid bets.
Think pool hall. Think biker bar. It's just the stereotype.
But I have seen biker gang members start frequenting bars that had bike nights. I'm not talking about Riders for Christ. I'm talking about the Pagens and others. These for the most part are not law abiding citizens. Do you want them hanging around your karaoke night?
I've been a biker all my life and I don't go to biker bars or bike nights. I don't go to pool halls. It's not my crowd.
Do you & the family want to stop and eat in a bar or restaruant that has 20 motorcycles parked in front? I don't. Now picture 100 or more for bike night. What's the odds of there being a few hard core jerks in the crowd? Too high for me and my family. It would only take one or two. Do you think there are any families there? Any white collar types? Any soccer moms? Any girl scouts?
I'm not saying the bikers are all criminal types. But I'm sure they don't go to too many church services either. But it's the stereo type that does them in.
Most restaurants only are separated by half walls you can usually look over to the other side. So not really a different room per say.
I have played in bars with pool tables. Pool tables take up a great deal of space when people are playing. I make them shut down the table during karaoke. This is to make sure nobody causes someone to miss a shot while trying to sing. Besides I need the room to hand out microphones and It causes me to have to wait so I don't get blamed for making someone miss a shot. Two people and a pool table take up an area of about 12X20. Too much room for a few dollars of game time with a packed house. Other people could be utilizing that space and spending more money eating and drinking. How many dining tables will fit in 12X20? A pool table has no food and drinks on it. Just two guys wasting a lot of space.
I would like the dart boards closed down on my Friday night for the same reason. The bar isn't big enough when I play to have the stupid dart boards taking up space that people could be standing in or singing from or sitting there. And the dart throwers get too loud if somene makes a shot or misses a shot. Just like the pool tables. It interfers with the karaoke singers during their songs.
Family oriented bars need to make up their mind what they want to be. They can not be all things to all people,
Pool tables and bike nights don't attract a family crowd. Most bikers are loners and don't have "old ladies" or kids with them. Ask people you know if they frequent places with pool tables. And if they would stop by during bike night. Why not? My guess is no.
So what good are they for business? Sure you may get 100 bikers there on bike night. And they may drink a ton of booze. But I have seen them kill the business on every other night of the week. So In the long run the money they made on bike night was lost 10 fold on other nights because of the preceived potential for trouble. The sterotype thing. And I'm sure the majority of the crowd was men. And the women that were there could probably kick my a&&. Nice crowd.
Believe me I have seen a pool table directly cause a bar to close within one year after it was installed. Actually the owner realized he made a big mistake and it was removed 6 months later. But the next six months didn't bring back the regular crowd so in a years time it was closed for good. He lost his great dinner crowd because he took out 6-8 tables because he put it in the dining room. I played there on Satudays and the placed was usually packed wall to wall. I distinctly remember going there on that saturday after he put it in. I called my wife and told her, he just screwed up and I remember telling her he will be closed in a year. From that night on the crowds got smaller and smaller. He eventually stopped the karaoke night because nobody was coming. Worse business decision that guy ever made. He listened to someone that wanted to play pool. That didn't care or have any stake in the business and could have cared less if the bar stayed in business. I wonder if that guy is paying the bar owners bills now?
Saw a bike night ruin the business of two different bars. They both closed one year after starting a bike night. It killed the regular crowd. I correctly predicted their one year death too. Almost to the day. Another one will die this year if they do it again this summer. The bike nights are real good business wise. But they kill the rest of the week. So what good are they?
Now you have dead weeks and a reputation for having a biker bar...for what???
Just mention the word biker bar to anyone and ask them to describe what it looks like and who will be there. Any guesses? Ask them if they would feel safe there.
Bike night to bars is like karaoke contests in bars. They both kill the crowd. But a karaoke contest will only kill the karaoke night. Bike night will kill every night.
If any bar I play in from now on starts having bike nights especially after I try to talk them out of it, I'll be searching out a new bar to play in because from my experience I'll have about six months to find one before I get the boot. Dead bars pay no bills.
So what does the bar owner do if 50 or so Pagens show up on bike night? They will do whatever they want and there will not be enough police in the area to do anything about it. If they decide to burn down the bar, it's history. If they want to rape your hot bartender, she's toast.
What if two motorcycle gangs show up for a few laughs?
The money to be made is not worth the risks it could bring.
Biker night kills the family bar. (Sung to Video Killed the Radio Star).
But pool tables have a stigmatism for being the cause of trouble & fights.
Accusations of cheating or losing the game can lead to fights because of unpaid bets.
Think pool hall. Think biker bar. It's just the stereotype.
But I have seen biker gang members start frequenting bars that had bike nights. I'm not talking about Riders for Christ. I'm talking about the Pagens and others. These for the most part are not law abiding citizens. Do you want them hanging around your karaoke night?
I've been a biker all my life and I don't go to biker bars or bike nights. I don't go to pool halls. It's not my crowd.
Do you & the family want to stop and eat in a bar or restaruant that has 20 motorcycles parked in front? I don't. Now picture 100 or more for bike night. What's the odds of there being a few hard core jerks in the crowd? Too high for me and my family. It would only take one or two. Do you think there are any families there? Any white collar types? Any soccer moms? Any girl scouts?
I'm not saying the bikers are all criminal types. But I'm sure they don't go to too many church services either. But it's the stereo type that does them in.
Most restaurants only are separated by half walls you can usually look over to the other side. So not really a different room per say.
I have played in bars with pool tables. Pool tables take up a great deal of space when people are playing. I make them shut down the table during karaoke. This is to make sure nobody causes someone to miss a shot while trying to sing. Besides I need the room to hand out microphones and It causes me to have to wait so I don't get blamed for making someone miss a shot. Two people and a pool table take up an area of about 12X20. Too much room for a few dollars of game time with a packed house. Other people could be utilizing that space and spending more money eating and drinking. How many dining tables will fit in 12X20? A pool table has no food and drinks on it. Just two guys wasting a lot of space.
I would like the dart boards closed down on my Friday night for the same reason. The bar isn't big enough when I play to have the stupid dart boards taking up space that people could be standing in or singing from or sitting there. And the dart throwers get too loud if somene makes a shot or misses a shot. Just like the pool tables. It interfers with the karaoke singers during their songs.
Family oriented bars need to make up their mind what they want to be. They can not be all things to all people,
Pool tables and bike nights don't attract a family crowd. Most bikers are loners and don't have "old ladies" or kids with them. Ask people you know if they frequent places with pool tables. And if they would stop by during bike night. Why not? My guess is no.
So what good are they for business? Sure you may get 100 bikers there on bike night. And they may drink a ton of booze. But I have seen them kill the business on every other night of the week. So In the long run the money they made on bike night was lost 10 fold on other nights because of the preceived potential for trouble. The sterotype thing. And I'm sure the majority of the crowd was men. And the women that were there could probably kick my a&&. Nice crowd.
Believe me I have seen a pool table directly cause a bar to close within one year after it was installed. Actually the owner realized he made a big mistake and it was removed 6 months later. But the next six months didn't bring back the regular crowd so in a years time it was closed for good. He lost his great dinner crowd because he took out 6-8 tables because he put it in the dining room. I played there on Satudays and the placed was usually packed wall to wall. I distinctly remember going there on that saturday after he put it in. I called my wife and told her, he just screwed up and I remember telling her he will be closed in a year. From that night on the crowds got smaller and smaller. He eventually stopped the karaoke night because nobody was coming. Worse business decision that guy ever made. He listened to someone that wanted to play pool. That didn't care or have any stake in the business and could have cared less if the bar stayed in business. I wonder if that guy is paying the bar owners bills now?
Saw a bike night ruin the business of two different bars. They both closed one year after starting a bike night. It killed the regular crowd. I correctly predicted their one year death too. Almost to the day. Another one will die this year if they do it again this summer. The bike nights are real good business wise. But they kill the rest of the week. So what good are they?
Now you have dead weeks and a reputation for having a biker bar...for what???
Just mention the word biker bar to anyone and ask them to describe what it looks like and who will be there. Any guesses? Ask them if they would feel safe there.
Bike night to bars is like karaoke contests in bars. They both kill the crowd. But a karaoke contest will only kill the karaoke night. Bike night will kill every night.
If any bar I play in from now on starts having bike nights especially after I try to talk them out of it, I'll be searching out a new bar to play in because from my experience I'll have about six months to find one before I get the boot. Dead bars pay no bills.
So what does the bar owner do if 50 or so Pagens show up on bike night? They will do whatever they want and there will not be enough police in the area to do anything about it. If they decide to burn down the bar, it's history. If they want to rape your hot bartender, she's toast.
What if two motorcycle gangs show up for a few laughs?
The money to be made is not worth the risks it could bring.
Biker night kills the family bar. (Sung to Video Killed the Radio Star).
I see your point. I guess I've never been around any of the more violent bikers. We have Henchmen here, and the one's I know seem like pretty decent fellows and I have yet to see them start trouble.
But, along the lines of what you were saying ...
When my husband first moved to the area he was looking for a good night spot. Everyone told him to stay away from Bob's because it was a biker bar. He decided to check it out anyway and discovered that, even though there were a lot of Harley's out front, most of the people inside were white-collar types. So, a place does get a bad reputation just from bikes being parked outside.
I abolutely can not imagine being at a place that had 50 or more hard-core bikers! It certainly would not be a place that I would frequent!
I will also admit that the pool tables do get a little noisy at times when a good shot is made or a crucial shot is missed. I find it more irritating, though, when some one decides to sing along to the song and over-powers the person who is "performing" the song.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question, "How many does it take to ruin a good night?". I've been frequenting the same place weekly for about 2 1/2 years and can count on one hand the number of times I have seen "trouble" there. But then, I go on Saturday's, it seems to be a different crowd than they have on Thursdays and Fridays. It's an older crowd.
If I had to name a group of people that I thought caused the most trouble, it would have to be the college aged kids. If there is going to be trouble it is usually from them.
Bigdog, we have different opinons on a lot of things. I think maybe I come from a different world than you do. I'm just an old country woman, born and raised. About 6 years ago I moved to the "city", although some people don't consider it as such. Actually I am on the outskirts of a town that is on the outskirts of the city. I think that, perhaps, I just haven't had the experiences you have because we live in vastly different areas?
But, along the lines of what you were saying ...
When my husband first moved to the area he was looking for a good night spot. Everyone told him to stay away from Bob's because it was a biker bar. He decided to check it out anyway and discovered that, even though there were a lot of Harley's out front, most of the people inside were white-collar types. So, a place does get a bad reputation just from bikes being parked outside.
I abolutely can not imagine being at a place that had 50 or more hard-core bikers! It certainly would not be a place that I would frequent!
I will also admit that the pool tables do get a little noisy at times when a good shot is made or a crucial shot is missed. I find it more irritating, though, when some one decides to sing along to the song and over-powers the person who is "performing" the song.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question, "How many does it take to ruin a good night?". I've been frequenting the same place weekly for about 2 1/2 years and can count on one hand the number of times I have seen "trouble" there. But then, I go on Saturday's, it seems to be a different crowd than they have on Thursdays and Fridays. It's an older crowd.
If I had to name a group of people that I thought caused the most trouble, it would have to be the college aged kids. If there is going to be trouble it is usually from them.
Bigdog, we have different opinons on a lot of things. I think maybe I come from a different world than you do. I'm just an old country woman, born and raised. About 6 years ago I moved to the "city", although some people don't consider it as such. Actually I am on the outskirts of a town that is on the outskirts of the city. I think that, perhaps, I just haven't had the experiences you have because we live in vastly different areas?
One jerk can ruin a night for the entire crowd. Two if they are fighting. Nothing clears/kills a fun night like a fight inside.
Or throw in a few scary looking biker dudes dressed up in black leather and tattoos.
I was born and raised 20 miles away from a major city. I always heard stories about the bad sides of the city. They are still the bad sides 50 years later. Probably worse now. Lots of shootings in the worst places.
There are two biker bars I know of around here and they have been biker bars for over 50 years. They have had their share of trouble. Found a 15 year old girl dead in the cellar of one. But everyone wears leather. How many white collar types are in the regular crowd I couldn't tell you. But I wouldn't want to make either one of them a regular hang out. I doubt if there are any hard core gang members. But that's not to say that they won't ever stop by. And what happens then is anyones guess. They never travel alone.
I did see two different biker gang members at the same bar and it wasn't bike night. Beleive me a lot of diners left in a hurry. I was just setting up for karaoke. I kept watching all of them all night long. Anything could have happened in a big hurry. Now what happens if they do decide to come every bike night?
It is not worth the risk for a few extra bucks. STUPID decision. Why would you want a family bar and take the chance on being labled a biker bar because of one night a week. Your entire reputation hinges on one night.
Bike night one night a week may as well be biker bar every night. Because that's what the normal people are thinking you turned into. They are going to spend their time and money someplace else. SAFE
It comes down to preceived safety. How safe will me & my family be if we stop here? Now they may get some danger seekers stopping by. But your neighborhood family business is dead, dead, dead. And they will think if I see bikers there one night they may be there every night. I'm not taking a chance. I'll go down the road.
Now how can you change that reputation? One local bar we played in actually changed their name because they were getting a bad regular crowd because of the bands they were hiring. The type of music you play determines the crowd you attract. It doesn't matter if it's a band, DJ or KJ or jukebox. They wanted a family bar/restaurant and it got away from them because of stupidity. So change the name and not have bands and hope everyone forgets and comes back.
Once you kill your crowd for whatever reason, you're done. They find other places to go. There is not a whole lot of loyalty. Saw that with the smoking thing. Smokers left like the bar was on fire just so they could find a smoking bar. Loyal to their habit, not location, not entertainment, not owner.
Or throw in a few scary looking biker dudes dressed up in black leather and tattoos.
I was born and raised 20 miles away from a major city. I always heard stories about the bad sides of the city. They are still the bad sides 50 years later. Probably worse now. Lots of shootings in the worst places.
There are two biker bars I know of around here and they have been biker bars for over 50 years. They have had their share of trouble. Found a 15 year old girl dead in the cellar of one. But everyone wears leather. How many white collar types are in the regular crowd I couldn't tell you. But I wouldn't want to make either one of them a regular hang out. I doubt if there are any hard core gang members. But that's not to say that they won't ever stop by. And what happens then is anyones guess. They never travel alone.
I did see two different biker gang members at the same bar and it wasn't bike night. Beleive me a lot of diners left in a hurry. I was just setting up for karaoke. I kept watching all of them all night long. Anything could have happened in a big hurry. Now what happens if they do decide to come every bike night?
It is not worth the risk for a few extra bucks. STUPID decision. Why would you want a family bar and take the chance on being labled a biker bar because of one night a week. Your entire reputation hinges on one night.
Bike night one night a week may as well be biker bar every night. Because that's what the normal people are thinking you turned into. They are going to spend their time and money someplace else. SAFE
It comes down to preceived safety. How safe will me & my family be if we stop here? Now they may get some danger seekers stopping by. But your neighborhood family business is dead, dead, dead. And they will think if I see bikers there one night they may be there every night. I'm not taking a chance. I'll go down the road.
Now how can you change that reputation? One local bar we played in actually changed their name because they were getting a bad regular crowd because of the bands they were hiring. The type of music you play determines the crowd you attract. It doesn't matter if it's a band, DJ or KJ or jukebox. They wanted a family bar/restaurant and it got away from them because of stupidity. So change the name and not have bands and hope everyone forgets and comes back.
Once you kill your crowd for whatever reason, you're done. They find other places to go. There is not a whole lot of loyalty. Saw that with the smoking thing. Smokers left like the bar was on fire just so they could find a smoking bar. Loyal to their habit, not location, not entertainment, not owner.
i started a bar not to long ago and the owner told me about a ex kj who got out of the business because he was a drunk. she told me he likes to sing his version of the song. when he came up and told me what he was singing i told him he had to write it down and to make sure he read our policies on the cover of the books. He did went filled out his slip and came up and told me he was singing next. I explained that he had to follow the rotation and he was understanding. when he got up to sing he sang well and during the first instrumental break cussed me out. or tried to he got one or two words out and i muted his mic and went and took it away. needless to say i have not seen him in their since
