It's Only For The SHOCK VALUE....

[spotlightjr]

OK... last word from me on this. I personally do not edit the "questionable lyric songs" in my song book. It's kind of tough for me to grasp the concept of editing my songbook for the sole purpose of taking out any offensive or distasteful lyrics or suggestive statements etc. I mean, where do you draw the line?
Almost all of today's music whether it country, rock, hip-hop, etc have either swear words or suggestive lyrics in them. If I used Bigdog's criteria on editing songbooks I think my only gigs would be at the local church.
Being a kj is like doing most other jobs. You have to use your best judgement. If your doing a family restaurant at 7:30 and someone wants to sing that dumb "boat" song then you have to recognize your situation and not allow it. On the other hand, if your at a bar at 1am and someone wants to sing it then I dont see a problem with it.
I am in total control at my gigs and letting someone sing some so called "offensive" lyrics has never caused any fights, brawls, etc. I dont feel it promotes it either. Just because someone says "&*^%" over the mic doesnt mean all other morals and manners are forgotten.

[wiseguy]

OK... last word from me on this. I personally do not edit the "questionable lyric songs" in my song book. It's kind of tough for me to grasp the concept of editing my songbook for the sole purpose of taking out any offensive or distasteful lyrics or suggestive statements etc. I mean, where do you draw the line?
Almost all of today's music whether it country, rock, hip-hop, etc have either swear words or suggestive lyrics in them. If I used Bigdog's criteria on editing songbooks I think my only gigs would be at the local church.
Being a kj is like doing most other jobs. You have to use your best judgement. If your doing a family restaurant at 7:30 and someone wants to sing that dumb "boat" song then you have to recognize your situation and not allow it. On the other hand, if your at a bar at 1am and someone wants to sing it then I dont see a problem with it.
I am in total control at my gigs and letting someone sing some so called "offensive" lyrics has never caused any fights, brawls, etc. I dont feel it promotes it either. Just because someone says "&*^%" over the mic doesnt mean all other morals and manners are forgotten.

You are 100% correct.

[Bigdog]

You say this to justify the way you do your show. You're not going change your method. Because in your eyes you think you are totally right. Nobody is ever offended at your shows and everybody loves the swearing.


I can't believe that.

And all your bar owners don't care about their reputation. And you don't care about yours.


I can't believe nobody cares.

[spotlightjr]

Bigdog you abuse the hell out of these message boards to propagate your rigid and archaic approach to karaoke. What works for you in your "secret" part of the world doesn't necessarily work in ours.
I am not justifying how I run my shows. I don't have to. I run 5 very successful shows a week down here in Florida using some of the very things you find unwarranted (lights, fog machines, props, etc.)
If your happy with your current setup then so be it. Don't ridicule and belittle someone else who doesnt conform to your prehistoric ways. Just because we dont edit our songbooks to suit your narrow-minded way of thinking doesnt mean we cant be successful.
It appears to me that you cut off your nose to spite your face. Perhaps its time to sit back and re-evaluate. Just my opinion.

[Bigdog]

When did common decency become out dated? Prehistoric.

My abuse of this board is nothing compared to the abuse you force upon your audience.

16 years ago all the karaoke music was edited and decent. It wasn't until the late nineties early 2000s that the karaoke music had swearing as part of them. So if you started 16-17-18- years ago you ran totally decent shows for 6-7-8 years before the smut took over.

What happened? Why has common respect lost its appeal? I'll have a successful show by insulting and disrespecting everyone. I won't discriminate. If they don't like it too bad...Has anyone ever asked the bar owner if they care? Or did you just take it upon yourself to ram it down his throat?

My goal has always been to get as many people in the bar as I can. I don't achieve that by insulting and disrespecting decent people. And don't cater to the ones that come to deliver shock treatments.

I'm confused by KJs that think it's totally exceptable to let everyone swear in front of women, young and old like it's normal and everyone should think it's fun. Since when? Maybe I missed something along the way. When did it become in fashion to degrade women by F & MF bombing them all night? Or even once for that matter. For the sake of having fun.

The free speech argument won't work. It's not a matter of free speech, it's about decent and indecent...acceptable behavior or not.

If you think it's acceptable then I would question your moral judgement. Nudest colonies have to provide protection for non nudests with high fences. There are decency standards we all must abide by. You can't walk down the city street naked because you're a practicing nudest. These songs aren't played on the radio without editing.

How does serving alcohol makes it all acceptable? If you're offend at my show don't come back....so decent people that don't like or don't want to hear that language should stay home? My bar owner doesn't care what they say on the microphones or who they say it in front of. Think about that statement real hard.

I cater to people that like swearing and like to hear it and don't find it objectionable. So what does that say about the caliber of your crowd? I get plenty of women of all ages at my shows that aren't offended by the swearing...again how high are their moral standards? If they sit there and laugh about it and do it? Are they the ones that flash everyone at the drop of a hat? Are they the ones that can out drink most men? Are they the ones that swear worse drunken sailors? Are they the ones that go home with someone different every night? Maybe the kind you don't take home to mother? If it is somebodies mom or sister what does that say about them? If that's the kind of women you like.....how high are your standards? And that queston can be most likely answered by what you allow to take place at your shows. You are responsible for it's entire content.

I don't care what they do in the privacy of their house. Public behavior standards are different. Where is the RESPECT? Wasn't it taught growing up? Doesn't it matter as long as you make money?

I run 5 nights a week with crowds of decent people that act normal. Without insulting and disrespecting others for the sake of "fun." That's how I run my show. Obviously I'm in a minority that thinks people in public should show some respect for women (others.) Free-for-all shows don't do that and there is no way to justify it.


As a side note: I heard of a lady that had a severe alergic reaction to fog in a local bar. Hospitalized over it. I never heard if she sued. But if she did, it would be against the bar owner and the KJ fog machine owner.

[wiseguy]

When did common decency become out dated?

Perceived decency and morality changes with the times. In the 1800's a woman who wore a dress that exposed her ankles would have considered a harlot. In the 1930s a woman who wore a skirt length above the knee would be scorned. Imagine what would happen if they dressed the way women do today.

In the 1950's you were considered very immoral if you had sex before marriage, and if you were gay, you had better hide it very well. Today unmarried people living together is perfectly acceptable and gays are winning the right to be married.

Do you remember when the strongest language you heard on network television were words like darn and shoot. How does that compare to today's TV?

16 years ago all the karaoke music was edited and decent. It wasn't until the late nineties early 2000s that the karaoke music had swearing as part of them.

I think you're forgetting about the Sound Choice releases of "Songs Your Mama Wouldn't Let You Sing" with wholesome little tunes like The Rodeo Song, Strokin', and I touch Myself.

My goal has always been to get as many people in the bar as I can. I don't achieve that by insulting and disrespecting decent people. And don't cater to the ones that come to deliver shock treatments.

I get as many people in the bar as I can by not imposing my own sense of morality on them. I don't disrespect them by taking away their freedom of choice.

I don't care what they do in the privacy of their house. Public behavior standards are different.

Again, the very definition of hypocrisy. Nobody has an ethical right to preach what they don't practice.

People who listen to, buy CDs of, and sing the music that you consider offensive do not consider themselves indecent or immoral. They are simply in time with the acceptable behavior of the present. Hypocrites like yourself (by your own admission) are the ones calling them indecent and you simply don't have that right.


Response to side note: Modern fog solutions are no more dangerous than water vapor (steam). The older types had a warning label about using them around people with asthma.

[Sabrina59]

Wow, this is still going on?

I think it would be interesting to know the ages of the people involved in this discussion. Before any of you get upset, I'm NOT calling anyone immature. Some generations see things differently than others.

I really do appreciate the fact that BD believes women should be respected by not using foul language in front of them. This may be "old fashioned" by some standards, but it is very refreshing.

I don't have a lot of respect for folks that believe it is okay to use that language in all of their conversations. In my opinion it shows a lack of intelligence and respect.

I don't see it as hypocritical to say it is okay to do that in your own home but not in public. Do any of you remember the old definition of a perfect wife? She was a lady in the livingroom and a wh*r* in the bedroom. Does this mean she was actually a wh*r* all the time or hypocritical? No. It means that she knew when it was acceptable to act in a certain way.

I believe we all have the right to be offended by, what we percieve, as indecent behavior. I think we have become a nation (world?) of selfish individuals; it's all about me, what I want, how I want to act. If you don't like it ... too bad. Yes, we have evolved, but have we evolved for the better? In my opinion, no; not in this case.

Still, like I've said before, who is to say what is right or wrong? There are good points for both sides of this argument and it is a personal choice to include, or not, what some may consider offensive songs. I wouldn't presume to tell any of you how to run your shows. You do what works for you and the places you work. No one is right or wrong ... we just have differing opinions.

Now be nice before I make you all hug and make-up.

[Bigdog]

When did common decency become out dated?

Perceived decency and morality changes with the times. In the 1800's a woman who wore a dress that exposed her ankles would have considered a harlot. In the 1930s a woman who wore a skirt length above the knee would be scorned. Imagine what would happen if they dressed the way women do today.

In the 1950's you were considered very immoral if you had sex before marriage, and if you were gay, you had better hide it very well. Today unmarried people living together is perfectly acceptable and gays are winning the right to be married.

Do you remember when the strongest language you heard on network television were words like darn and shoot. How does that compare to today's TV?

16 years ago all the karaoke music was edited and decent. It wasn't until the late nineties early 2000s that the karaoke music had swearing as part of them.

I think you're forgetting about the Sound Choice releases of "Songs Your Mama Wouldn't Let You Sing" with wholesome little tunes like The Rodeo Song, Strokin', and I touch Myself.

My goal has always been to get as many people in the bar as I can. I don't achieve that by insulting and disrespecting decent people. And don't cater to the ones that come to deliver shock treatments.

I get as many people in the bar as I can by not imposing my own sense of morality on them. I don't disrespect them by taking away their freedom of choice.

I don't care what they do in the privacy of their house. Public behavior standards are different.

Again, the very definition of hypocrisy. Nobody has an ethical right to preach what they don't practice.

People who listen to, buy CDs of, and sing the music that you consider offensive do not consider themselves indecent or immoral. They are simply in time with the acceptable behavior of the present. Hypocrites like yourself (by your own admission) are the ones calling them indecent and you simply don't have that right.


Response to side note: Modern fog solutions are no more dangerous than water vapor (steam). The older types had a warning label about using them around people with asthma.

So does that mean that you should help perpetuate and make these questionalble things happen faster? Like it's your duty.

I remember when a divorce or out of wedlock child was a major family disgrace. Today it is more acceptable....but does that make it any more right??? Anymore moral..anymore decent. I say no....

Howard Stern the "SHOCK JOCK" is a perfect example. (I didn't give him this name) Someone much wiser than me did.

He may have a few million loyal fans. But compared to the 350 million people in the country, his audience is very small. It's a very small minority. He also has trouble finding sponsers that want to be associated with him and his show. Wonder why?? He caters to pervs and people with low moral values. He is not mainstream entertainment. He is back alley quality.

What happens to the famous athletes that screw up...??? They lose their endorsment contracts. Because of the way decent people (which are the majority) will or could have a negative impact and cause a lose of sales for their product.

These decisions are all based on what's considered public decency.

So your SHOCK show may be popular for a minority...it's not the normal majority. Radio stations all across the country play what's normal. Tell me what they don't play.....anything indecent. The majority of the country listens to decent broadcasts, and watch decent TV programing. P-O-R-N is popular in the bedroom...not main street. Not the local bar.

I'm in the majority. It's not me imposing my decency values on the country. The country's majority decency values are imposed in me and the people that come to and appreciate my type of show. I don't cater to the SHOCK singers. They love your popular shows. They are a minority not worth my time. Not my targeted market. Not the country's norm. Thank GOD.

[wiseguy]

So does that mean that you should help perpetuate and make these questionalble things happen faster? Like it's your duty.

That's the point. Questionable is in the eye of the beholder. Do you think that women today should be held to the same moral standards of the 1800's and forced to wear long dresses that reveal nothing but their face? Do you think that people who get divorced should be looked upon as a family disgrace? These things have become more acceptable because they should have been acceptable in the first place. People are no longer allowing themselves to be controlled by those who think they have some right to set moral standards.

Do you think that you are qualified to set the standards of decency? Or who do you think does have that right? Are our churches the last word on this... or our government? The answer is "none of the above". Society evolves and sets it's own standards as it progresses. The fact that the songs you protest so much end up being platinum album sellers (the song Everything About You was the lead single on Ugly Kid Joe's double platinum album for a pertinent example) attests to this.

Howard Stern in my opinion is a disgusting pig. But he's a disgusting pig that is the number one TV DJ in the country. Another sign of the times.

What happens to the famous athletes that screw up...??? They lose their endorsment contracts. Because of the way decent people (which are the majority) will or could have a negative impact and cause a lose of sales for their product.

Just look at the difference between the commercials of the 70's and those of today. Every other one has either half naked women or some sort of sexual innuendo or both. The athletes who lose their endorsements are the ones who commit illegal acts. It's rarely purely an issue of morality.

The heights that you take your decency issues to do put you in a minority. Most of the country has moved on. If you don't progress with the changing morals of the times you are doomed to be left in the past.

[wiseguy]

I think it would be interesting to know the ages of the people involved in this discussion. Before any of you get upset, I'm NOT calling anyone immature. Some generations see things differently than others.

I'm from your generation.

I don't see it as hypocritical to say it is okay to do that in your own home but not in public. Do any of you remember the old definition of a perfect wife? She was a lady in the livingroom and a wh*r* in the bedroom. Does this mean she was actually a wh*r* all the time or hypocritical? No. It means that she knew when it was acceptable to act in a certain way.

If that woman was a wh*r* in the bedroom and then preached about the evils of sex in public she would be a hypocrite. See the difference... and the resemblance.

I believe we all have the right to be offended by, what we percieve, as indecent behavior. I think we have become a nation (world?) of selfish individuals; it's all about me, what I want, how I want to act. If you don't like it ... too bad. Yes, we have evolved, but have we evolved for the better? In my opinion, no; not in this case.

Would you like to go back to the time when women were treated as second class citizens? Where when any remark you made that had the least inclination of being sexual (like some benign statements you've made in this forum) would have you branded a woman of ill repute? Moral evolution has given you these freedoms. This same evolution has given others different freedoms even if you or I don't agree with them.

[Bigdog]

I'm NOT calling anyone immature. I AM!!!

When you have a family gathering... I.E. Reunion, wedding, birthday...

Is the entire family including grandma and mom and sisters and aunts and cousins all F Bombing it up with each other? They aren't prudes and squares are they? They are hip and with the present times right? If they aren't MFin' and stuff they must be very boring gatherings. Do you tell mom she isn't swearing enough and it's embarrassing the fam...??? Come on mom... lower your standards....

The majority of the public decides the moral barometer. I don't. People that love Ugly Kid Joe "Everthing...." are still a minority. You only need a million sales to have a gold record. Hardly a majority. 1 million people don't represent anyone. That's a minority of low morality people. It's so cute the way he articulates.....That's entertainment ....

Sinatra... loser..

Martin... loser

Elvis .... loser

Ugly Kid Joe ... winner

M&M .... winner

Howard "SHOCK JOCK" Stern.... winner

Gangsta Rap.... ...winner

Why not start the kids out early and pipe Howard & Joe into Pre School day care centers. Make it mandatory so they can be "hip" by the time the get to grade school. Since low morality rules....we wouldn't want them to be behind the rest of the world....

What/who do you want to expose your kids to? They have to grow up someday. What example will you set for them?

Dragging the accepted public normal behavior down with crap music can be seen in every ghetto and low income area across the entire country. Nobody there is listening to Old Blues Eyes records.

The moral fabric of the entire country is going down the tubes...Thanks for all your help... It doesn't mean we have to accept it or consider it the norm...

I rest my case.

[Sabrina59]

I presumed you were from my generation because of the number of years you have in the business. We're "old folks" but not old fogeys.

As far as that wh*r* in the bedroom goes, it would depend. If she was preaching about the evils of sex in public, I would have to agree with her. But if she was publicly speaking about the evils of sex, yes, she would be a hypocrite.

As shocking as it may be, even I, the angelic one, drop the F-bomb every once in a while. It does not flow easily off my tongue and it is never in the presence of those underage, or folks I don't know. Usually it is at home when I am suffering from PMS (putting up with men's sh*t). I don't believe this makes me a hypocrite at all. I know when it may not be acceptable.

Actually, yes I would LOVE to go back in time. Not as far back as you mentioned, but I really believe we have lost a lot with our evolution; women especially. We used to be respected and treated like "ladies". Gentlemen would open doors, stand when we came to the table, light our cigarettes, etc. I just love it when men do those kinds of things. And yes, I probably would have been labeled a "scarlet woman".

But your last sentence is exactly what I have been saying. We do have that freedom of choice. It is a choice that we, the KJ's, make. Since I, personally, don't care for the songs that contain a lot of cussing I choose not to listen to them, even at my show. I don't mind a little innuendo, but things like "How Many Licks" goes WAY beyond what I am comfortable with. If folks, young or old, want a good selection of those songs they need to go to another show.

I won't go as far as BD and say that everyone who wants those songs are drug addicts, alchoholics or in it for the shock value. I've met some very nice folks that like those songs. So you can't really judge a book by it's cover, nor can you really judge a singer by his/her song.

Now, I understand that I have been doing this for a lot less time than most of you ... and I only have a family show, but I can't see the problem with an edited book. I'm not saying they can't do those songs, they just can't do them at my show.

[Bigdog]

I think you're forgetting about the Sound Choice releases of "Songs Your Mama Wouldn't Let You Sing" with wholesome little tunes like The Rodeo Song, Strokin', and I touch Myself.

Was not a mainstream audience disc. It's for a select group of KJs that feel OK with this crap. Most of those songs are unacceptable at my show.

They are novelty songs that appeal to a small group. Not the Masses. And not on the normal radio play list. Their popularity has worn off.

Actually, yes I would LOVE to go back in time. Not as far back as you mentioned, but I really believe we have lost a lot with our evolution; women especially. We used to be respected and treated like "ladies". Gentlemen would open doors, stand when we came to the table, light our cigarettes, etc. I just love it when men do those kinds of things. And yes, I probably would have been labeled a "scarlet woman".

The woman's liberation movement ruined this. Most women agree with this statement. At the time it showed men that (some) women didn't care about special treatment. Equal rights was perceived to include everything. Women (& young girls) that run around braless with their thongs/underwear hanging out says...LOOK AT ME, I'M A TRAMP, I'M EASY & I HAVE LOW MORALS. It doesn't say I'll see you in church sunday.

If I run around with my "goods" hanging out or partially visable, I'll be arrested and registered real quick.

People that use F bombs in public create a perception about themselves. It's not a good one. Nobody is thinking about taking them home so they can do some F bomb bonding with mother over cookies and milk.

People still look at "friskie" girls as tramps. All bikers are "He!!s Angels. Tattoos are for carnival freaks. Fat people are all lazy. Nothing has changed. It's still how the majority of people think.

Free-for-all shows create a certain perception of the KJ and the bar. A lot of people will steer clear of a show like that. Just as the SHOCK VALUE singers stay away from mine or they sing NORMAL songs. And fit in with everyone else.

[Sabrina59]

Uh oh ... I'm in trouble. I'm fat, have tattoos (no tramp-stamp though), ride a motorcycle, and have been known to wear low-cut blouses. Guess my angelic image is shot to h*ll now.

[Bigdog]

What's your phone number????