50 Tailpipes aren't hooked into bars and running all night.
There are CANCER BARS and CANCER FREE BARS.
I'll take my chances in the Cancer Free ones.
I'm going to start referring to the smoking bars as Cancer Pits. Are you going to get your cancer treatment (dose) tonight? Which clinic (bar)?
Maybe as a smoker you haven't paid attention to the increased number of smokers attending the bars that allow smoking. There is a marked increase and the air is getting horrible.
A local KJ has proposed that singers boycott smokeless bars. He smokes. Maybe they should just boycott the KJ.
No the tailpipes are not in the bar but you have a choice in going to the bar you don't have a choice in going outside and breathing the air
And how many other things cause cancer you are around every day
I'm with you mw. This is just another instance of the government taking away a personal freedom. They do not have the right to protect us from ourselves. Patronizing, or working at, a smoking allowed bar is a choice that an adult should be able to make for themselves. The only requirement should be a warning sign on every entrance. I don't smoke but I'm fed up with government intervention in our personal choices.
What's next? After smoking is banned from everywhere except your own home, and they tax tobacco to the point where most people can no longer afford it at all, maybe they'll go after alcohol. Let's see how well an alcohol free bar goes over. Don't think it can't happen. When we start allowing any personal choices to be taken away we open the door for all of them to be taken away.
Nobody bytched when they said asbestos was a major cause of certain lung cancers. They took it off the market for good.
Second hand smoke has been put in the same catagory as asbestos as a dangerous substance.
Smoking in your home with minor children present and inhaling is child abuse. No different than laying them on a bed of asbestos at night.
So you feel it's OK to expose any and everyone to cancer causing agents? Just because you want to kill yourself?
It's not just something that became known in the last year. Everyone has known the dangers connected to smoking for at least 50 years and maybe longer. It's just that through years of studying the effects it has on all parts of our bodies that these regulations have been implimented.
Smokers are causing my health insurance rates to increase to pay for your bad habit and the evil effects of it. This is a public safety issue. Not about your rights to poison people to satisfy your addiction. Just quit and think about your health and that of your family. Suffering with lung cancer isn't how you want to die.
The government has stepped up to keep many harmful things away from us. Like asbestos, peanut products, any food (human & pet) products from China. It's why pesticides come with labels. To protect you from being a jerk and killing yourself from using them in an unsafe manner. OSHA and the other agencies protect you in a working environment.
It doesn't say on a pack of smokes CAUTION MAY CAUSE CANCER for no reason. It's there because everyone knows it will.
It will only be a matter of time before it's outlawed in all public places. Then what will you do?
I am not arguing the risks of cigarette smoke (and it is risk and not certainty). I'm arguing that it should be up to each adult person to decide whether or not they want to expose themselves to it. And yes, I agree that the government should warn us of the existence of harmful substances. And when it's a situation where it is a personal choice on whether you expose yourself to it then it should be your choice.
Being that "Everyone has known the dangers connected to smoking for at least 50 years and maybe longer" you personally chose to expose yourself to the danger by choosing to work in smoke filled bars. Why did you do that? Did the appeal of performing karaoke outweigh the danger?
What if a public ban was placed on alcohol? Would you support it? It is well known that alcohol is a serious health risk and is very addictive. Many normally non-violent people become violent when under the influence of alcohol and harm innocent people (including minor children). Thousands of innocent people are killed every year by drunk drivers. By allowing people to drink alcohol the general public is exposed to serious danger.
A total ban on smoking will not affect me personally. As I stated before, I don't smoke.
I don't know if it's a National bill or a state bill or if it's called the same name all over the country but the Clean Indoor Air law pertains to protecting workers from the harmfull effects of second hand smoke. So before they enacted the law smoking was exceptable everywhere. So working in a bar or and office or any other work place, all workers and non workers were exposed to it. You couldn't get away from it unless you stayed home 24/7. Now everyone needs a job. So 99.9% of everyone that works had to put up with it.
Now that they have found out actually how harmful second hand smoke is they have put a stop to it in most if not all public places. How can any bar or work place get an exemption? It's still as dangerous and probably more so now, because the number of smokers in smoking bars has doubled.
Where does it say that you have the legal right to put poisonous substances in your body. Let alone some innocent bystanders body.
You have no right to poison anybody with second hand smoke or any other substance. I have more of a right to be protected from it.
So Bigdog What makes you think you have more of a right than i do as a smoker. Again it is a choice it is a choice to work in a bar it is a choice to go to the bar. And if we are going to ban the smoking where do we stop putting bans on. If we are so worried about the general saftey lets get rid of alcohol cars ext. It comes down to one thing no one wants to be in charge of their own actions and this is why the court systems in this country are as backed up as they are................
Bigdog, we're well aware of you stance on the smoking ban. Now I'd like to hear what your stance would be on an alcohol ban. There are groups in this country pushing for this, and like the smoking ban, they will probably succeed eventually.
OK let's just remember that second hand smoke causes cancer.
Nobody has the right to put people in danger because of something they want to do or feel is their God given right to do.
There are cures for every addiction. Smoking is an addiction. Get help for your problem and don't make it my problem.
Alcohol ....is it addictive???? Too much, too many times may be. Is a drunk driver dangerous??? YES
Is someone that drinks in moderation or socialy a danger? Probably not.
Smoking any amount of cigarettes is bad for you. It increases your risk of cancer and other illness.
Someone sitting next to me in a bar drinking is not going to cause me any type of illness. Even it they spill it on me. No chemical burns or holes in my clothes. The smell of his alcoholic drink won't make me puke. The smell of his alcoholic drink won't be on my clothes when I get home. The fumes won't burn my eyes. Or plug up my sinus. Or cause me to start coughing. He won't want to bum a drink from me. Hey Buddy do you have a stirrer?
Problem drinkers are the problem. If they get behind the wheel, it's a problem. You can drink responsibly. Can you smoke responsibly? Can you respect my right to not participate in your cancer causing habit and not include me and others. There is nothing wrong with a smoker being courteous towards others that smoke or don't smoke. Don't blow it in my face or do it while I'm eating. If it wasn't hurting me I don't have a problem with it. But you don't have the right to impose the effects of second hand smoke on me or anyone else.
Seat belts save lives. They made you do it. Not smoking saves lives. Responsible drinking saves lives.
If they discover that alcohol and the fumes from second hand alcohol causes cancer or some other illness then mabye it should be banned. Fumes from your alcoholic drink won't kill anyone. As of yet.
What reason would there be to ban alcohol? Drunk Drivers? After a wreck the alcohol manufacturer doesn't get sued the drunk driver does. Nobody told you to drink like a fish. If you have an addiction to it then get help. Or drink at home. Just like you can smoke at home. Most smokers are not courtious towards nonsmokers. They treat us like we are the enemy. I'm addicted to not smoking.
Does working in a bar bother you? People could become alcoholics. We could be contributing towards them becoming dependant. Would you take the keys from a drunk? Would you take the smokes from a smoker if you thought they smoked too much? To keep them from killing themselves or others. Watch them all with their smokers cough. Yellow fingers. Yellow teeth. Ashtray breath. Smelly clothes. Anyone that wants their mouth to taste like a cigarette is goofy. May as well chew on a dog turd.
I see some real alcoholics in a few places. Drunk every night. They are killing themselves. Getting drunk night after night kills brain cells. Brain cells don't regrow. So you can get dumber and dumber from it. Smoking kills the tiny air sacks in your lungs and the tiny hairs that flick the pollutants from your lungs. The reason smokers cough it because their body is tring to rid the pollution from their lungs. Smoking causes the tiny air sacs to become brittle and coughing causes those sacs to break. They do not grow back. That is why smokers find it harder to breath. Kill the hairs and the air sacs and you will get terminally sick. I don't know how long or how much you have to smoke to do that type of damage but smoking at all isn't going to help. How long to you have to be alcoholic to have brain damage? My ex wifes uncle drank a 6 pack everyday for breakfast. And I'm sure he probably drank all day long. He was skinny as a rail and it ended up killing him. But his habit didn't cause anyone else to get sick. There is no second hand alcoholism.
Smoking is air pollution. They have cleaned up car exhaust pretty well from where it use to be. They stopped making all 2 cycle motors because of pollution. They are implimenting stricter standards for car exhaust. How many known poisons are contained in cigarette smoke. It's a dose of poison with every puff. Poison not air freshener. Not anything healthy. Nothing beneficial for mankind. They should tax you for polluting the atmosphere. You are a pollution generator. Contributing to global warming. Destroying my ozone layer. Your smoking habit is adversely effecting the world and all it's inhabitants. Smoking probably increases acid rain. Cigarette butts thrown on the ground are polluting the ground water.
There is not one thing you can say good about cigarette smoking. It increases blood pressure. Pollutes your lungs and body. Leads to heart attacks and stroke.
I'm not looking for a comparison between tobacco and alcohol. Only a fool could deny the fact that thousands of innocent Americans are killed each year because someone consumed too much alcohol. Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. Are these not good enough reasons to do away with it? Dead is dead whether it's from second hand smoke or by being killed by a drunk driver.
Obviously your stance on the smoking ban is self serving. But if alcohol was prohibited then there would be no bars for you to perform in.
Just today the biggest tobacco state (Virginia) in the union just imposed a smoking ban.
How much of that states income do you think comes from smoking?
Second hand drinking won't kill you. Second hand smoke will.
They tried to prohibit drinking in the 20s-30s. It didn't work then and we will not have to worry about that happening ever again.
Only Cancer free jobs for me, from now on. The rest of the country will catch up sooner or later. You will see no smoking nationwide before you ever see one state ban alcohol.
Start looking for the smoke free bars now and get a jump on your competition.
Even if alcohol is never banned, someday the legal limit for driving will be zero (it keeps dropping on a regular basis) and that will mean you can't have one beer and drive. This would all but finish off the bar business. Right now bars are being held responsible for serving people who later commit alcohol related crimes.
Second hand smoke is the affect of one person's actions upon others. So is drunk driving.
My actual point is about freedom of personal choices. I was just using alcohol as an example. Every day there are laws being passed or considered that take away our right to make decisions that affect us personally. The seat belt law, that you mentioned preciously, is a prime example. Why should anyone have the right to tell me I must wear a seat belt? Maybe I feel safer without one. Who, other than myself, can be harmed if I do not wear a seat belt?
How about this. A poor diet and lack of exercise is the second leading preventable cause of death in the United States, right behind smoking. Should the government be allowed to tell us what, and how much, we're allowed to eat and then make it mandatory to exercise every day? Should all unhealthy fast food be prohibited from being sold?
This country was formed with the idea that all people should be free to do whatever they want (the pursuit of happiness) as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.
If a person wants to open a bar and allow smoking he should be able to do so as long as it is well advertised as a "smoking allowed" establishment. It is an adult decision on whether or not you enter the bar and no person's rights are infringed upon.
You had better start defending the freedom of personal choices or be prepared to loose those that are important to you.
They already have told you by law what you can and can not eat. What about the trans-fat laws?
If the car wreck doesn't kill you and you become paralized, sooner or later your insurance company will stop paying and I being a tax payer will have to start caring for you.
Like it or not smoke free will be coming to the entire country.
The price of alcoholic & non alcoholic drinks should be the same and it won't matter about the drunk driving laws. If you are the designated drinker it all works out. The bar is a place of entertainment and social gathering. Not a place to drink irresponsibly. If your mission in life is to go out and get plastered every night you need to get a life and get help or drink at home. If I owned a bar and Mr So & So wanted to leave every night totally bombed and was going to drive home I would...#1 make him give me the money to pay for a cab up front...#2 have someone there to drive him home ...or #3 tell him to drink somewhere else. I would not let a drunk put my livelyhood and my entire life in jeopardy.
Talking about rights... you better buy ammo before June.
A drunk driver can kill you with his car. But he can't kill you by breathing on you. They haven't proved that alcohol fumes (second hand alcohol) can harm you with cancer yet.
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Maybe they should just boycott the KJ.
