New KJ, I have some questions

[wiseguy]

Before the recount in PA has even started the state’s own voluntary revision of its vote totals now have Trump’s winning margin falling from 70,638 votes to now just 46,938 votes. Chances are looking good that in the end he will have lost PA. An independent group has raised the $50,000 necessary to sue for a recount in FL. You will find no shortage of experts who believe that Clinton actually won FL. There are now 15 electors who have joined the anti-Trump coalition. This ain't over.

[The Lone Ranger]

Before the recount in PA has even started the state’s own voluntary revision of its vote totals now have Trump’s winning margin falling from 70,638 votes to now just 46,938 votes. Chances are looking good that in the end he will have lost PA. An independent group has raised the $50,000 necessary to sue for a recount in FL. You will find no shortage of experts who believe that Clinton actually won FL. There are now 15 electors who have joined the anti-Trump coalition. This ain't over.

You are right about one thing wiseguy it ain't over till the electors vote, and that won't be until the 19th of December.

[wiseguy]

Talk about hypocrisy. For a week Trump has been spouting off about massive voter fraud and now he's having his people file law suits to stop the recounts in the three states citing there is insufficient evidence of voter fraud. What an asshat.

[The Lone Ranger]

Talk about hypocrisy. For a week Trump has been spouting off about massive voter fraud and now he's having his people file law suits to stop the recounts in the three states citing there is insufficient evidence of voter fraud. What an asshat.

I don't know wiseguy didn't Trump say he wouldn't challenge the results if he won? If the recounts have been paid for and agreed to by the various state officials I don't see where there would be grounds for stopping the recounts, they would only reinforce his winning wouldn't they, if indeed he actually did win?

[wiseguy]

Trumps people are obviously very worried about the recounts to be so frantic about stopping them.

Trump's attempt to stop the recount in Michigan has failed and the recount is set to begin on Tuesday or Wednesday. A federal court struck down Trump's attempts to stop the recount in Wisconsin so the recount will continue. In Pennsylvania there is a court hearing set for Monday and there is little reason to believe that Trump will be able to stop that recount. Still waiting for information about the recount law suit in Florida.

Trump isn’t even the President yet and in one week he has told one of the world’s largest supporters of terrorism that he will do anything it takes to “fix their problems”, invited a murderous madman to the White House, and seriously angered our biggest geopolitical rival. Hopefully the electors will realize that he is a bumbling fool who cannot be trusted to run this country.

[The Lone Ranger]

Trump isn’t even the President yet and in one week he has told one of the world’s largest supporters of terrorism that he will do anything it takes to “fix their problems”, invited a murderous madman to the White House, and seriously angered our biggest geopolitical rival. Hopefully the electors will realize that he is a bumbling fool who cannot be trusted to run this country.

Well isn't that what the electorate wanted someone that would shake things up world wide? You have to understand wiseguy that someone that has no experience is running things now, even before he is sworn in. That is not one of his duties as President elect, to meet with foreign leaders while he hasn't even been officially sworn in. This is what comes from electing a citizen with no military or political experience. This would never have happened in ancient Rome during the time of the Republic. A man would have to have served in the military 16 years before he could even hold elected office. At that time it was not purely military experience he would obtain but also administration skills as well. As much as we like to say any boy or girl can grow up to be President, how many are really able to handle the grave responsibility that power entails? Look at all of the men who have been President, they all age very rapidly in office because of the demands of the job. Getting back to Rome when the Empire took over from the Republic and an Emperor was installed things varied greatly in quality of government. Some emperors were successful and some were totally unfit to rule. If we as a nation do not have our best people at the top our fortunes will ebb and flow in much the same way. Sixteen more days and we will see if the recounts or the electors change anything. The recounts have to be completed by the 13th, before the electors meet on the 19th. Oh and of course Trump's little show of divestment on the 15th, all staged of course.

P.S. Trump has already made China upset by talking on the phone to Taiwan's President, the first time in 30 years that such a call was made by someone who is supposed to occupy the White House. I'm sure we will have more such incidents, I just wonder what happens with North Korea. There is a really unstable leader with nuclear weapons?

[Bigdog]

A recount for the third party loser which is so far behind a miss count of 10 million votes wouldn't make any difference to her. So why and why even entertain such stupidity? Waste of money and time. Who paid and why?

#2 the president of South Korea called Trump not the other way around. So I guess he should have just hung up on her, right? Trump is trying to be something Obama isn't and wasn't. Trump should have and could have been cordial to her out of respect for her position and she was extending a hand of friendship and congratulations to our new president. I can not blame her or him for this act of respect for one another.... Anyone that sees something wrong with the entire incident is an idiot.

#3 read this.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/many-them ... 23008.html

95 million out of the work force.. Simple math that equals about 1/3 of our population unemployed ..now add in the housewives and children and you have another 1/3. And how many lazy people refuse to work? So the 4 1/2 % unemployment rate figure is rediculously underestimated. Liberal coolaid stands are popping up everywhere. How many of those 95 million could and should be working? Much more than 4% ....

[The Lone Ranger]

A recount for the third party loser which is so far behind a miss count of 10 million votes wouldn't make any difference to her. So why and why even entertain such stupidity? Waste of money and time. Who paid and why?

#2 the president of South Korea called Trump not the other way around. So I guess he should have just hung up on her, right? Trump is trying to be something Obama isn't and wasn't. Trump should have and could have been cordial to her out of respect for her position and she was extending a hand of friendship and congratulations to our new president. I can not blame her or him for this act of respect for one another.... Anyone that sees something wrong with the entire incident is an idiot.

#3 read this.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/many-them ... 23008.html

95 million out of the work force.. Simple math that equals about 1/3 of our population unemployed ..now add in the housewives and children and you have another 1/3. And how many lazy people refuse to work? So the 4 1/2 % unemployment rate figure is rediculously underestimated. Liberal coolaid stands are popping up everywhere. How many of those 95 million could and should be working? Much more than 4% ....

As usual bigdog you are wrong. It was the female President of Taiwan who called Trump, not South Korea. The Donald chose to accept her call, which was bad form because there has been in place for over 30 years now no formal communications at the top level with this country. This was to promote a peaceful transition eventually of the reunification of China. Also it is not a matter of millions of votes only 70,000 located in states with the electoral votes to put Trump in the White House. Even if you are right that there are more unemployed workers than are stated, that makes the who situation even more dangerous, for the country as a whole. You have all of those idle people and thanks to the gun lobby enough firepower out there for everyone to have a gun. If Trump fails then what a mass revolt of the masses. What then bigdog?

P.S. When you talk about lazy people, who are you talking about the old, the disabled, and moms with little children? I guess to your way of thinking they are all takers like Romney was talking about, a permanent class of gold bricks and spongers. What about the people society has left behind to shift for themselves, the mentally ill that were let loose from state mental hospitals? I love how we spend money on foreign countries and let our own people suffer. That is one message that I agree with Trump on we should take care of our own first, you can't take the splinter out of your brother's eye unless you remove the beam from your own. You keep talking about all the citizens on food stamps, what would happen if you cut them off and they began to starve? Don't you think there would civil unrest on a scale never before seen in this country? Lack of food is what triggered the French and Russian Revolutions.

[wiseguy]

A recount for the third party loser which is so far behind a miss count of 10 million votes wouldn't make any difference to her. So why and why even entertain such stupidity? Waste of money and time. Who paid and why?

#2 the president of South Korea called Trump not the other way around. So I guess he should have just hung up on her, right? Trump is trying to be something Obama isn't and wasn't. Trump should have and could have been cordial to her out of respect for her position and she was extending a hand of friendship and congratulations to our new president. I can not blame her or him for this act of respect for one another.... Anyone that sees something wrong with the entire incident is an idiot.

#3 read this.... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/many-them ... 23008.html

95 million out of the work force.. Simple math that equals about 1/3 of our population unemployed ..now add in the housewives and children and you have another 1/3. And how many lazy people refuse to work? So the 4 1/2 % unemployment rate figure is rediculously underestimated. Liberal coolaid stands are popping up everywhere. How many of those 95 million could and should be working? Much more than 4% ....

#1 Jill Stein is not trying to win. Several computer scientists noticed some odd things going on with electronic voting in a few states. Jill Stein, in the interest of fair future elections, asked for donations to have recounts done in those states. All the money was from private donations.

#2 Nobody said anything about South Korea. Trump probably caused a diplomatic crisis with China when he decided he would talk with the president of Taiwan on Friday. The move left political observers wondering how he could have possibly thought this was a good idea. Of course it was the same reason Trump does anything. He thinks he can get something out of it. In this case, another luxury resort.

In 1979, the United States severed all diplomatic ties with Taiwan and adopted a One China stance. Since that time, no president (or president-elect) has spoken with the country’s president. Until this idiot comes along.

#3 I'm not going to address this one because I would never be able to make you understand how flawed your assertion is.... not to mention your math.

[Bigdog]

I stand corrected I said South Korea instead of Taiwan ....it's all the same.. Taiwan wants its independence from China...so I guess that makes it wrong for them to want to not be under communists rule.... Liberals would think that way...

What's China going to do when we take back our manufacturing jobs? Screw them...

I didn't write the article that said 95 million are out of work...95 million is not 4 1/2 %....you know very well who the lazy people are...it's not the ones you refer to...I'm talking about able bodied people that choose not to work and want to suck free money out of mine and your pockets and you think that's ok...more liberal crap. FREE can not go on forever..without a heavy price to pay......and I'm sick of having my tax dollars wasted on deadbeats...you should be too....the country is going down the toilet it's an obamanation.....what he has let happen to our country... Worst president ever...

If there is a need for a recount because of irregularities TRUMP was right....the democrats tried to rig the election...everyone knows what went on

[Bigdog]

Taken at face value the recount doesn't make any sense....it just became crystal clear....

https://www.thestreet.com/story/13907690/1/?ref=yfp Who will she sell the list to and for how much...and when she does the money will probably end up in her personal savings account..

[The Lone Ranger]

n

I stand corrected I said South Korea instead of Taiwan ....it's all the same.. Taiwan wants its independence from China...so I guess that makes it wrong for them to want to not be under communists rule.... Liberals would think that way...

What's China going to do when we take back our manufacturing jobs? Screw them...

I didn't write the article that said 95 million are out of work...95 million is not 4 1/2 %....you know very well who the lazy people are...it's not the ones you refer to...I'm talking about able bodied people that choose not to work and want to suck free money out of mine and your pockets and you think that's ok...more liberal crap. FREE can not go on forever..without a heavy price to pay......and I'm sick of having my tax dollars wasted on deadbeats...you should be too....the country is going down the toilet it's an obamanation.....what he has let happen to our country... Worst president ever...

If there is a need for a recount because of irregularities TRUMP was right....the democrats tried to rig the election...everyone knows what went on

There is a big difference between South Korea and Taiwan bigdog. First Korea before it was divided was an independent kingdom for a couple of thousand years before both China and Japan tried carve out their spheres of influence there. Japan over ran Korea during WWII and then the country split into two parts the Communist North and the Democratic South, and that is pretty much how it is now. Taiwan, however was a provience of China and was considered part of China proper. There was a war between China and Japan in 1895 and Taiwan was ceded to Japan, along with other Chinese territory. After WWII Nationalist China was awarded control of Taiwan and it once again became part of China. During the Chinese Revolution that brought the Communists to power the Nationalists were driven from the mainland and relocated to Taiwan. The Chinese mainland government has always considered Taiwan part of China a sort of rebel province. It was corporate America that pressured our government to break off diplomatic ties with Taiwan formerly. They wanted to improve relations with Communist China in order to promote trade and open up Chinese markets. For over 30 years the U.S. has been committed to a peaceful transition to a unified China, Taiwan is part of China, just like Hawaii is part of the United States, even more so if you look at the length of time China had control over the island.

Bigdog I don't know how to break it to you we are not going to get back the manufacturing jobs, they are gone, deal with it. Trump is going to make a show of trying to stop the bleeding, but even in the case of Carrier he could not save all of the jobs, he saved about half. It isn't able bodied people who are sucking free money, it is greedy corporations getting corporate welfare in the form of tax breaks, by holding people's jobs economic hostages for ransom like, the corporate pirate raiders they are. As I said before the simple solution to keeping jobs here is for the government to pass laws making the companies responsible for maintaining the costs of the move, in terms of the human carnage they leave behind. Just like a company is responsible for the toxic cleanup of the hazardous material they leave behind. If not then the taxpayer is on the hook for keeping these displaced workers whole until they can find new work. If we shift the costs to the company that is moving and taking jobs away I don't think you would see them so willing to leave the good old U.S.A. for greener pastures.

The last census I think we had somewhere around 330 million people officially probably more unofficially. Typically in a population at least a third of the population is children under 18 years of age. So if you subtract the children that leaves you with 220 million or so adults, out of that 59 million are currently retired with an additional 10,000 baby boomers leaving the work force daily on average, Oh by the way that 10,000 a day is for the next 19 years. That brings the total down to 161
million adults of working age. If you take out the millions of disabled including veterans and the prison population which is the highest in the world, the homeless which is anywhere from 3 to 5 million, lets lump these altogether around 25 million, that leaves 136 million. Of course you have include the over 2 million current service men and women who are not in the work force. So we have about 134 to 135 million able bodied workers. If you were to take out 95 million unemployed that would mean our total work force would consist of about 40 million adults. No wonder we are running deficits there isn't enough people working to support the government, if what you say is true. That is not the case our deficit spending has gone down, true our deficit grow but not at the rate they were growing before Obama took office. If anything has hurt our financial state as a country it has been the policies of the Republicans, refusing to raise taxes and at the same time fighting wars and not paying for them, putting them on the national credit card.

While I don't think the recounts will change anything, I do believe the electors need to seriously think about their vote on December 19th, look into their hearts ask themselves if they really want to turn the government over to a party with a history of mismanagement like the Republicans?

[Bigdog]

This says a good bit of the way the country feels....I don't agree that Hilary is center left....that " progressive" talk sounds too commie for me.... That is left left. Using the code word progressive for actually meaning communist.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/joe-li ... 4/?ref=yfp

Why can't we become a great heavy manufacturing country again....do you think we should be trading with communist China to begin with? Why should we contribute to their economy? Why can't we stop the corporate greed that started this whole mess in the first place... We need companies that test the workers as they should be with decent wages and benefits. I would never work for any non Union business....sure the unions are probably corrupt but not as corrupt as companies that are purely profit driven at the expense of the employees ability and right to earn a decent living.

Corporations need tax breaks.....you'll never get a good paying job from somebody on food stamps.... Rich people create jobs and hire people not poor people.... If companies can't make enough money to stay in business then there are no jobs.....but that shouldn't include corporate greed where the CEO gets millions while screwing the workers out of everything they can for the sake of the bottom line and share holders happiness .... Our entire economy is rigged against the working man. 401 K ponsi schemes are part of that because it forces the working man to root for corporate greed to build their retirement accounts..... Think about it....if you contribute to their ponsi scheme you're part of the problem. 401Ks were started by the government as a way to get more of your hard earned money... Just like the company stores.... We'll pay you and you can give the money back to us. One way or another.... If not in taxes we'll crash the stock market and take it back.... Keep putting in and we'll keep taking it back.... You'll be a millionaire trust us.... And since all the companies have forced their employees to have a 401K account you're trapped.... You're indirectly part of the corporate greed cycle.... No corporate greed your ponsi account stays low...

Andrew Carnegie and guys like him are the reason unions needed to be formed... He would have keep his workers as slaves working for peanuts, if not for the brave men that fought and died forming labor unions. Non Union workers benefit from labor unions fighting for better wages, benefits and working conditions. I considered my union dues as payment to keep my benefits which my company would have taken away from me in a heartbeat.

[Bigdog]

National debt tripled under Obama...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-0 ... st-history

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-p ... nt-3306296

[The Lone Ranger]

National debt tripled under Obama...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-0 ... st-history

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-p ... nt-3306296

The reason the debt increased under Obama is simple he had to stave off an economic meltdown as serious as the great depression, brought on by corporate greed and gross incompetence. At the time he took over only half the money needed to restore the economy had come from Congress. He was just lucky at the time he had a Democratic majority in the house, and passed the recovery act. If it had been the Republicans in charge of Congress everybody around the world would be selling apples on the streets. He bailed out the Auto Industry and saved over 1 million good paying union jobs with benefits. That money of course was paid back early, not to bad a call. He was also at the same time saddled with two wars, neither of which had been paid for by increasing taxes, it was all put on the national plastic. Compared to the rate of increase of national debt under Bush II, it actually went down under Obama, since more people were working and paying taxes.


Talking about kicking the can down the road Trumps new Treasury Secretary is talking about taking the debt and converting it to, 50 to 100 year bonds with a balloon payment due at the end of principle and interest to be paid by future generations. Hoping I guess that in the mean time Trump will have blown up the world and nobody will be left to collect. Hey here's an idea why don't we declare war on the infrastructure that is crumbling and issue bonds to pay for reconstruction of the country? We could use the same 50 to 100 year bond trick, and pay off the notes early by increasing our productivity, growing our way out of our problem, by providing good paying union construction jobs.